Williston, ND Active Issues

Steve Powell · Guru

RE: To strip or not to strip...

Steve Powell · Guru

Holy - asssociated with a devine power.

How does shopping have anything to do with anything holy?

How did the Brits ever come up with a vacation being that of a holiday?

vko · Senior Member

I am interested what "Jibslider" would say, if the Silverman's came to your house to, tell you, "You Just Violated their Belief, and just Offended Them." They are your neighbor's you know, after all. Just me being curious. smile

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

Jibslider wrote:

In my opinion, "holy" is a subjective term. What is holy to one person, family, or group is not neccesarily holy to another. Of course Christmas is a holy day for my family and many around us, but December 25th isn't really holy to the Silverman's down the street... and that is OK with me.

I can tell you that Boxing Day isn't a holy day for me, but to my wife and her family and to anybody else who worships shopping, it sure is a holy day. Apparently we'll be celebrating it up in Saskatoon this year.

There's nothing wrong with being respectful towards other people's holidays, or holy days as you put it, but there is something wrong with being over demanding of others towards your holiday.

Very well said

Jibslider · Senior Member

In my opinion, "holy" is a subjective term. What is holy to one person, family, or group is not neccesarily holy to another. Of course Christmas is a holy day for my family and many around us, but December 25th isn't really holy to the Silverman's down the street... and that is OK with me.

I can tell you that Boxing Day isn't a holy day for me, but to my wife and her family and to anybody else who worships shopping, it sure is a holy day. Apparently we'll be celebrating it up in Saskatoon this year.

There's nothing wrong with being respectful towards other people's holidays, or holy days as you put it, but there is something wrong with being over demanding of others towards your holiday.

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

R Hill wrote:

Thanks for the list. Not quite sure they are all "Holy" days but non the less they are in December. As for me Christmas is my biggest day in Decemember.Haven't really seen any Hannukkah sales or have a great rememberance day, or Happy winter solice day, I have heard that kwanza is big somewhere, Not sure of any boxing day gifts, Well I would like to wish all here a Very Merry Christmas.I would like other people to respect what Christmas is to some and not just throw in in a list of other days in Decemember.

How is it not repecting what Christmas is to some by listing "other days in December"? Didn't you ask for a list?

R Hill · Veteran Member

Thanks for the list. Not quite sure they are all "Holy" days but non the less they are in December. As for me Christmas is my biggest day in Decemember.Haven't really seen any Hannukkah sales or have a great rememberance day, or Happy winter solice day, I have heard that kwanza is big somewhere, Not sure of any boxing day gifts, Well I would like to wish all here a Very Merry Christmas.I would like other people to respect what Christmas is to some and not just throw in in a list of other days in Decemember.

Jibslider · Senior Member

I'm going to "go Rogue" here and list off the top of my head:

December
1: 1st day of hanukkah
7: remembrance day/Pearl Harbor day
9th: last day of hanukkah
21: winter solstice
24: christmas eve
25: christmas day
26: 1st day of kwanzaa
26: boxing day
31: new years eve

... and when I say "go Rogue", I'm referring to drinking a Juniper Pale Ale by the Rogue Brewery.

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

I'll bow out gracefully.....

Steve Powell · Guru

Why? Because we are fighting over it? No. Because we have people that disagree and are having a very good debate? Can't imagine why that would be.

Why?

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

because my momma always told me "don't discuss religion or politics". And I see why.......

Steve Powell · Guru

Actually, that's what this board was created for so I don't see what the problem with debating the issue is.

R Hill · Veteran Member

Sorry you see it that way. Jibslider mentioned a list and I asked for it. How does that never end?

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

This is the subject that never ends......yes it goes on and on my friends....some people...started debating it, not knowing where it ends...and they'll continue debating it forever just because.....this is the subject that never ends....yes it goes on and on my friends...some people...started debating it not knowing where it ends......and they'll continue debating it forever just because..this is the ....

R Hill · Veteran Member

Jibslider wrote:
Sure If you can, list all the" Holy" ones since Holiday is another way to say " Holy days" I would welcome any list that gives us such important days to celebrate such as the birth of a Savior of the world born to us from the God who created all.

R Hill wrote:

What Holiday?

Do you really need a listing of all December holidays?

vko · Senior Member

Ouch! It will be what is it to be. Each person has a personal choice. It is their choice to make.

Steve Powell · Guru

Well, once we become Europe all vacations will be holidays. biggrin

Jibslider · Senior Member

R Hill wrote:

What Holiday?

Do you really need a listing of all December holidays?

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

We celebrate "christmas" as family time. Time to show love and caring for family and less fortunate. The rest of my family (parents, sisters, cousins, ect...) all celebrate Christmas for their own reasons. Either way, for me, its familly and loving time.

R Hill · Veteran Member

What Holiday?

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

*walks away and pretends like this post was NOT brought back up*

biggrin

I've stated enough on this whole subject

Happy Holidays !

Steve Powell · Guru

Tesla wrote:

there is a reason people are offended by that kind of stuff.

I'm curious about that. If you're a non-believer then why care if someone prays to a God you don't believe exists?

Steve Powell · Guru

"in publics reward" Show me where walking by an establishment and saying a silent prayer is asking for "publics reward".

Believe me, I get that verse. But remember, the Bible also states to pray continuosly. I may happen to even drive by those establishments and say a prayer. Am I looking for "publics reward"?

Tesla · Veteran Member

I think in that format it is very judgemental and assuming,

and I'm betting they all have work in their own lives to do...

if someone from whispers wanted they could walk into one of the 30+ places of worship in town for assistance.

there is a reason people are offended by that kind of stuff.

my reference simply meaning if Christ himself walked up to those people asked them if they were without sin none of them could say no. They'd be humbled go home hopefuly in private and confess and repent themselves instead of publicly making a scene attempting to chastise others....

none of them could throw the first stone.

anyways, like Mr. Hill stated below, the only prayers that are honored are in the privacy of ones own heart and between themselves and their Maker. Anyone who prays in publics reward is cut short at that "attention in public."

Steve Powell · Guru

1. Tesla is one of my favorite all-time bands. Nice username.

2. What makes you think praying for someone is "casting stones"?

Tesla · Veteran Member

"Let he who is without sin throw the first stone!!!!"

I agree with R. Hill keep it private,

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

Luckily, I have not. Probably a good thing.

Sooooo....Now that the whole town of Williston knows my thoughts on this whole subject. I will move on :)

Steve Powell · Guru

Just curious. Have you seen these people outside doing this? We're they in a large group? Were they praying out loud?

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

No offense to prayer, just get tired of it being pushed. And really ? standing outside of whispers to pray for people? THey really need to find something better to do with their time AND prayers.

Steve Powell · Guru

You've dealt with the wrong Christians then. No one is above anyone else.

So if there's no difference between prayer and hopefull wishing, why take offense to the prayer?

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

I honestly don't see the differance between prayer and hopefull wishing. And at least hopefull wishing I do because I want to...not because a book tells me too.

Honestly, I've had waaaaaay too many religious people look down on me for not agreeing with "their" religion. Basically, if your not a christian, christians think your wrong..if your not buddist...buddists think your wrong. blah blah blah.......

I'm me. I believe in me. I believe in my family. I believe in love. What more do you need really?

Steve Powell · Guru

If you don't believe in what prayer can do...why are you so against it?

If it means nothing to you...how can it be such a bad thing?

I'm guessing it has something to do with what the prayers are for. Right?

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

I will be working at whispers tonight if anyone would like to come out :)

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

One answer.....no. I believe in the power of "good thoughts".

Steve Powell · Guru

One question....do you believe in the power of prayer?

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

and I think its petty for people to pray for people just because they are walking into a strip club. And your wrong...its not an act of kindness. Its exactly what you said its not...judgment. They can pretend all they want that they are not judging these people, but their lying to themselves.

Steve Powell · Guru

Don't have time to research past the major religions. I have two kids with strep that are very demanding right now.

We're veering off onto another topic, prolly need to start another thread.

My point to this thread is that I think it's petty for people to get upset just because someone else wants to pray for them.

It's an act of kindness, not judgement. If you don't believe, a simple "thank you" will do and be on your merry way.

There are many aspects to Christianity that we can discuss. Should atheists celebrate Christmas? Should Christians celebrate All Hallows Eve? Etc...

Someone willing to start that topic?

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

Again with the bible. I understand that that the bible defines "sin" in many ways. I'm saying, whats makes the bible right? It comes down to something I've said many many times in my life. Just becuase its written in what you say is a "bible" , why does that make it true and something that everyone should follow??

And you mention 3 or 4 religions. There is sooooooo many more than that! Everyone "believing" in something differant. You may narrow it down to 3 but do some research on that.

vko · Senior Member

A mother who love's her children will protect them, with or without support. I can not and will not ever take that away from a person doing so. I choose to send my 1 child to Sunday School until he was confirmed. Then it was my Child's choice. His father who is Catholic and I am Lutheran, decided Once that child went through Sunday School and Confirmation - I had to send him on his way with God's Blessing. As each and every one of us I believe you lose your way and find your way back. People who have never had that beginning can not and will not understand any Scripture's unless Christ help's them.. My personal Opinion. I did ask many minister's what is the most unforgiveable sin. I can not stomach this: Suicide - because you can not ask for forgiveness. Tell me if I am wrong. Please do so.

Steve Powell · Guru

R Hill wrote:

Steve there are many bible verses used in answering Momof2 question on sin.
Not wanting to Preach hear but she did ask.
"Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor His ear too dull to hear," says Isaiah 59: 1-2. "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear."
Sin is anything that seperates you from God. There are no degrees of sin,mankind would say that this sin or that sin is bigger but I would tend to believe the scriptures.
P.S. What happened to our vikings on Sunday?(speaking of sin)lol

Very true, well put. Agreed.

Wasn't sure scripture would have kept her interest in the subject at this point.

The Vikings? Well...let's just say I think God misses Chris Carter. wink biggrin biggrin biggrin

Steve Powell · Guru

Jibslider wrote:

Steve Powell wrote:

"Number 2 - none of the million differant types of religion agree on anyway. "

I gotta call ya on that one too. The three most prominant religions on this entire planet (Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism) all have a very common belief. Jesus Christ. He IS part of our worlds history. So yes, they do agree.
Steve, I think you've been engrossed into politics too much lately, because your response to the statement in bold above only tells half of the story. Most of the worlds' religions do believe in Jesus Christ, but at varying levels. Christians regard Jesus as a God whereas in the Islam faith Jesus is regarded as one of God's messengers. Buddhists on the other hand in general, don't really have a faith based opinion on who Jesus Christ was. Jesus may be the central figure of Christianity, but he is not the central figure in Islam or Buddhism.

I really don't see what the big deal is with a group of individuals getting together outside of an establishment to pray for people. I feel they have the right to pray just as the individuals have the right to provide adult entertainment. Those that frequent adult establishments also have the right not to listen.

I think the folks who are praying outside of Whipsers should focus their prayers at the real evil in town: Wal-Mart, but that's just my opinion.

Yes Jib. That's very true. And I did realize that. I was merely pointing out the fact that there is one common thread in those religions. One who exists regardless of what role he plays. They all agree on this.

R Hill · Veteran Member

Steve there are many bible verses used in answering Momof2 question on sin.
Not wanting to Preach hear but she did ask.
"Surely the arm of the LORD is not too short to save, nor His ear too dull to hear," says Isaiah 59: 1-2. "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear."
Sin is anything that seperates you from God. There are no degrees of sin,mankind would say that this sin or that sin is bigger but I would tend to believe the scriptures.
P.S. What happened to our vikings on Sunday?(speaking of sin)lol

vko · Senior Member

Steve - trade you for your 4 children if you take my 4 sister's. Interesting discussion, but up to my neck, myself.

Jibslider · Senior Member

Steve Powell wrote:

"Number 2 - none of the million differant types of religion agree on anyway. "

I gotta call ya on that one too. The three most prominant religions on this entire planet (Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism) all have a very common belief. Jesus Christ. He IS part of our worlds history. So yes, they do agree.

Steve, I think you've been engrossed into politics too much lately, because your response to the statement in bold above only tells half of the story. Most of the worlds' religions do believe in Jesus Christ, but at varying levels. Christians regard Jesus as a God whereas in the Islam faith Jesus is regarded as one of God's messengers. Buddhists on the other hand in general, don't really have a faith based opinion on who Jesus Christ was. Jesus may be the central figure of Christianity, but he is not the central figure in Islam or Buddhism.

I really don't see what the big deal is with a group of individuals getting together outside of an establishment to pray for people. I feel they have the right to pray just as the individuals have the right to provide adult entertainment. Those that frequent adult establishments also have the right not to listen.

I think the folks who are praying outside of Whipsers should focus their prayers at the real evil in town: Wal-Mart, but that's just my opinion.

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

I hear you there. Just working two nights a week is hard with two kids!

Steve Powell · Guru

Thanks for the invite. Honestly, I'd love to but weeknights are tough with 4 kids.

I'm looking forward to furthering our conversation.

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

I'm not done with you yet Steve. I'm on my way to work, but would be more than happy to respond to you tomorrow. Very unfortunatly, I do not work at whispers tonight. I like it there and make good money ;). Have a good night. But hey, all else fails stop by the 4 mile tonight and I'd be happy to debate live :)

Steve Powell · Guru

The best way that I can explain sin is like this. Sin is immoral, harmful behavior. Sin is doing something that could have a very negative impact on some part of our lives.

MomOf2, I understand you don't want me to come knocking on your door and preach to you something you refuse to believe in. I understand that there are many people that go to strip bars that are very good people and I don't consider them bad human beings in any shape or form. I understand that you are an individual with your own thoughts, opinions, and beliefs.

I don't understand how you can be so against someone doing something that could only be a positive thing. I don't understand how any logic could point to the act of someone praying for someone else as being "holier than though" or forcing religion.

If you don't believe, then why can't you merely feel flattered that someone would actually care enough about you to think about you when they pray to their God? You don't have to believe, you don't have to care about their religion. Just understand that the reason they do it is because they care.

"I believe that if a girl has a nice body (or thinks she does for that matter ) and wants to show it off, that makes her powerful !?!?"

Power, comfort, and confidence should never come by our concern of what other people think about us. I believe this behavior leads to us making bad choices down the road. Perfect example...practically every politician in this country is more concerned about what others think of them instead of being confident that how they truly feel this country should be run is good enough. Yet they waffle and waffle to try to get everyone to vote for them. Look at the negative results we've seen from this.

"Number 2 - none of the million differant types of religion agree on anyway. "

I gotta call ya on that one too. The three most prominant religions on this entire planet (Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism) all have a very common belief. Jesus Christ. He IS part of our worlds history. So yes, they do agree.

Fun discussion, MomOf2. Thanks for taking the time.

MomOf2 · Veteran Member

Ok Steve. I'll go there. Whats a "sin" ? What makes the bible right ? Who am I to follow something that: Number 1 - I know nothing about and honestly, don't care. Number 2 - none of the million differant types of religion agree on anyway.

Whats makes "your religion", the "right religion" ?? Maybe in my own personal religion, I believe that if a girl has a nice body (or thinks she does for that matter wink

) and wants to show it off, that makes her powerful !?!? Thats GREAT they are comfortable enough in their own bodies that they will show them off. And maybe in my religion, its a sin for other people to pray for me in their way. Pray for me in MY way.......support a stripper:)

Steve Powell · Guru

MomOf2 wrote:

Steve Powell wrote:

"I think the strippers should go "privatly dance" outside of the churches."

That would make it easier for those that want to pray for them. They wouldn't have to make the extra trip downtown.

MomOf2, you're comparisons are way off. It's not a sin to sell stuff. It's not a sin to kill animals for food. It IS a sin to commit adultery and to covet.

I still don't understand why people get defensive when others offer to pray for them. Can someone explain that logic to me? Please?

Thats ignorance comming out though. Why does every one automatically assume that people are commiting adultry when they go to Whispers or the new place? These peopoe are CHOOSING to work there. Just like the people are CHOOSING to go there.

When I CHOOSE to walk into Whispers (whether for entertainment or work) , I dont need people to pray for me! Number 1, I don't believe in prayer. Number 2, if your going to pray for me anyway, don't waste it on that. Pray that my MS gets better. Pray that my moms cancer gets better. Don't pray for me because I support a local business in town.

Sin happens due to wrong choices. Ignorance is not knowing fully what the Bible tells us about adultery and coveting. Adultery and Coveting can be merely done through thought and not necessarily through action.

"Just like everyone else's religion." You mean like the Jehova's Witnesses? I would classify them in the "everyone else's" category but certainly not the "kept to yourself" category.

People who do not want to be prayed for must be afraid of the power of prayer. Hah! I just made that up! You can all use that as your quote of the day if you want. This tells me there is either an inkling of belief there. Or perhaps just simple ire for Christians.

Lastly, if I pray for your MS and your mom's cancer, I will do it in private and it will be kept to myself. Please don't get mad at me for doing so. I do it because I care. Truly. And I hope it works too.