Williston, ND Active Issues

Jibslider · Senior Member

RE: One Cent Sales Tax

stacyslap · Veteran Member

Grondahl wrote:

....we were very forthright with the Tea Party and what we needed to accomplish....we want to eliminate all or a portion of property taxes in lieu of the sales tax-what could be fairer that that?

I don't think that's forthright at all. Are you or are you not eliminating all of the property tax levy? If you are not, what amount will remain on our property taxes? I don't think you answer anything with that statement. I think people want to know if you will be double dipping, basically.

Sue Evans · Senior Member

Duty to fulfill a mission statement.

There is a major problem with voter apathy. When there is only one name on the ballot, what choice does an individual have? What we need is choice. More people to run. I do not like to see any official go unoppossed. I don't feel any elected official should be that insulated.

The mission then becomes misguided.

rwaitman · Senior Member

Sue Evans wrote:

More paths in town? When I was growing up we called those sidewalks.

At a glance, your hesitation to support bike paths in lieu of sidewalks, from a fiscally conservative viewpoint makes sense.

However, from the perspective of the mission statement of the Parks and Recreation, the goal is to provide recreational opportunities for all. It is common practice in almost any city of significant size, to have running, walking and bike paths.

I think Jibs comments were very astute. Different strokes for different folks.

It is the duty of the Boards to fulfill their mission as established, and how each elected Board decides to proceed with that mission is a consensus of the individual determinations of those board members. By all means, the people should, and do, elect those members to make these decisions on their behalf, and if disenchanted, vote a fresh group in to reflect their own desires. Historically, in Williston, we tend to have a small turnout in elections, and generally it appears small, aggressive, and vocal groups voting with a 100% turnout tend to rule the day, despite what might well be an entirely different position by the public at large. It is refreshing to see another group (Tea Party) creating a stir, and possible shaking many of us out of our apathy.

Kudos to you guys.

;o)

R

Clarke · Veteran Member

Darin and Larry.....

Now dont think I'm not a pro parks and rec guy because you both know that I am, but I believe that someone is getting the wooled pulled over their eyes here a bit.....why dont you guys redo your budget using the new/current sales tax numbers....I know you have them! I believe there was a 70% + increase from 07 to 08....show us the REAL numbers!! Is this extra just a padding for the budget???

Put a limit on this thing and I wont object at all!

Sue Evans · Senior Member

The TEA Party concerns with the Government have to start small. Where do we get the individuals we send to Washington DC? These people are home grown. They come from our communities. Statistics also show that 80% of corruption are at the state and local levels.

I am trying to demonstrate what I can do for our community, like my family before me. I desire to go beyond assisting my neighbor one by one and feel I have more to offer. This does not always come from a membership in a national organization first. I understand how noble many organizations are, they are not my choice. I have opted to run for office in this city. I chose to keep my charity issues to myself. I have however, offered one posting on this in the tea party Williston web site.

Our group sends a member to the park board meeting. We get a report. Our group sends a member to the city meeting, we get a report. You came to one of our meetings. You did face some hard hitting questions. I have faced some hard hitting questions. We have people that are feeling taxed enough. ND collects alone collects 35 types of taxes. We haven't even added on the federal or local issues yet. It doesn't matter what job you have, this hurts. The tax payer has to live within their means. We are looking towards our elected officials to do the same with our tax dollars. It is upsetting to see even our city getting "stimulus" funds for many who understand this is NOT free money. We will have to pay it back to the country it came from.

I see this board as a place to understand how the people of Williston actually feel. Excellent dialog.

rwaitman · Senior Member

Grondahl wrote:

I am extremely disappointed to see Sue Evans and Randy Waitman's posts on this website, especially as Randy was a Board member and knows firsthand of the needs of the Park District and what needs to be done.....the Park District is in a tough situation and needs more funding but nobody seems to understand, Randy should understand that-but apparently he was not paying attention the time he spent on the board....we were very forthright with the Tea Party and what we needed to accomplish....we want to eliminate all or a portion of property taxes in lieu of the sales tax-what could be fairer that that?-especially when 35% of all the users of Parks and recreation programs and facilities live outside the city limits, and all of us inside the city limits are continuing to pay for all of that for them........we eliminate property taxes for a sales tax that is already in existance? what can be wrong with that? Also, as figuring out how soon the Schools Bond is to be paid off-it is difficult to calculate, because it will be paid off early, and we do not know what will be collected every month-all the figures need to be calculated into the future, and if Sue Evans has a better way to calculate it-please let us know.................
Bottom line-the Tea Party group seems to be concerned with our local issues more than what is going on Nationally, and frankly I am more concerned with Washington than our local government-as I work with all our people locally on a daily basis-they are dedicated, loyal and have the best interests of Wiulliston in mind.....I have been to the local tea party meetings and frankly, I think its a shame the way they absolutely bad mouth our local officials and all they actually do for the community. Hopefully they begin to understand all the time they dedicate to the city......I would like to know more about Sue Evans and what she has done? Where has she worked? What is her community involvement? Where has she volunteered her time to make Williston a better place? Or is complaining about everything, making Williston a better place?
I do not ever post on this Board and that is why nobody else does either-because all it is , is a place for people to complain-if you have an issue-come to the Park Board, come to the City, come to the school board or the County and quit hiding behind a keyboard and make your voice heard.......IN PUBLIC
If you think its important, you should not be afraid to approach your public officials in person....I do not agree with any of Sue Evans views, but I will give her credit for having the strength to make the issue public and make her viewpoints heard-for that I applaud her.......now the rest of you need to do that also........
and as recguy said, "I am tapping out"............

Larry:

It was nice of you to post on this page. I hope you do not tap out. Tapping out is symbolic of submission, and I don't see you in that capacity. Please don't go.

This is a Public forum. I don't think there are very many members of this page who are hiding, that is old news. You can check the registration board for real names, as many of the posters like to use nicknames.

My opposition to the 1 cent tax is actually because of my experience on the Board, not in spite of. I think it is more an issue of budgeting not an issue of feeding more money into the General Fund. Of course there are difficulties, and we can hopefully find more creative ways to fund Park and Recreation programs and needs.

I am merely stating my opinions, not attacking the Park Board. Please do not interpret it that way, as that is not my intent. I simply disagree.

It is always nice to attend public meetings, but with the time constraints, free wheeling discussion is not generally an option. The internet provides that option.

It is better that more people come into the 21st century and take advantage of the internet.

'o)
R

Grondahl · Member

Mr. Mattern,
I look forward to seeing you at our next meetings, where you are free to speak in public and we welcome your comments........I stand behind my opinion and my views just like you do and my track reecord in this community.....please feel free to call any of our Board and talk to them in person instead of blasting people on this forum, which was exactly my point in my post...........this is why very few people post here..........my phone number is 770-7897 whenever you would like to speak to me....I am always available

JustinMattern · Newbie

Why would you not want to see people posting here and discussing local issues Grondahl? Free speech does not apply here sir? I am very disappointed you would even say such a thing. Do not fret sir, you will begin to see many of us at all of these meetings, and yes we are speaking out, we are educating oursleves and we are expressing it and we have the right to do.

Quote "Bottom line-the Tea Party group seems to be concerned with our local issues more than what is going on Nationally"

Did you really say this?? really?? Why in Gods name would we not be more concerned with our local issues over the National. Sir you know NOTHING of what the Tea Party is doing or what we are about. Any person with common sense knows you can do way more within the Local scene compared with the National. You also have NO idea what we are doing on the National scene.

After seeing what you think, I am afraid at the fact that you have ANY decision making ability concerning our Park and Rec Dept and anything to do with our City, and if you are "Tapping Out" this also shows your ability as a leader in our community.

See you at the next meeting Sir.

Justin Mattern

Grondahl · Member

I am extremely disappointed to see Sue Evans and Randy Waitman's posts on this website, especially as Randy was a Board member and knows firsthand of the needs of the Park District and what needs to be done.....the Park District is in a tough situation and needs more funding but nobody seems to understand, Randy should understand that-but apparently he was not paying attention the time he spent on the board....we were very forthright with the Tea Party and what we needed to accomplish....we want to eliminate all or a portion of property taxes in lieu of the sales tax-what could be fairer that that?-especially when 35% of all the users of Parks and recreation programs and facilities live outside the city limits, and all of us inside the city limits are continuing to pay for all of that for them........we eliminate property taxes for a sales tax that is already in existance? what can be wrong with that? Also, as figuring out how soon the Schools Bond is to be paid off-it is difficult to calculate, because it will be paid off early, and we do not know what will be collected every month-all the figures need to be calculated into the future, and if Sue Evans has a better way to calculate it-please let us know.................
Bottom line-the Tea Party group seems to be concerned with our local issues more than what is going on Nationally, and frankly I am more concerned with Washington than our local government-as I work with all our people locally on a daily basis-they are dedicated, loyal and have the best interests of Wiulliston in mind.....I have been to the local tea party meetings and frankly, I think its a shame the way they absolutely bad mouth our local officials and all they actually do for the community. Hopefully they begin to understand all the time they dedicate to the city......I would like to know more about Sue Evans and what she has done? Where has she worked? What is her community involvement? Where has she volunteered her time to make Williston a better place? Or is complaining about everything, making Williston a better place?
I do not ever post on this Board and that is why nobody else does either-because all it is , is a place for people to complain-if you have an issue-come to the Park Board, come to the City, come to the school board or the County and quit hiding behind a keyboard and make your voice heard.......IN PUBLIC
If you think its important, you should not be afraid to approach your public officials in person....I do not agree with any of Sue Evans views, but I will give her credit for having the strength to make the issue public and make her viewpoints heard-for that I applaud her.......now the rest of you need to do that also........
and as recguy said, "I am tapping out"............

Sue Evans · Senior Member

More paths in town? When I was growing up we called those sidewalks.

Jibslider · Senior Member

Sue Evans wrote:

...People here didn't really even want a walking/bike path let alone another park.

There were people there that didn't want a Wal-Mart too.

Williston could use many more miles of bicycle paths in town, there's so much green space just outside of town that could be utilized by the town folk's cyclists, hikers, cross country skiiers, and those that like to snow shoe.

Sue Evans · Senior Member

All of these free (taxed) issues...This demonstrates all of the excess revenues the park is asking for. The park is seeking approx. $5 mill in a honey do list. Of course, over the 10 year period park will realize $30 mill. The way this was presented to our TEA Party, the park board would also still want a levy on our property tax. The fear was the ability to get the levy back if it was done away with totally. Sales tax in our region is the highest in the state. What did the Williston survey state in relation to the park issues? I am sure the park board read some of this. People here didn't really even want a walking/bike path let alone another park.

rwaitman · Senior Member

Darin:

Thanks for the up front and forthright post. You have pretty much done exactly what so many of the other administrators, and leaders in this community should be doing... like your posting of a frank analysis of your perspective on the issues as Director of Parks and Recreation. They should learn a lesson from it.

This is probably the single most pro-active post I have seen since the inception of this web page.

I hope some of the elected officials will follow your lead, not just those who represent us here in Williston, but also those who represent us in Bismarck.

ahem....after I absorb it, I will decide whether to approach it as a Devil's Advocate, or not, but again, thanks for putting it out there.

;o)
Randy

-- Edited by rwaitman on Monday 8th of March 2010 05:32:08 PM

DarinK · Member

Clarke and others.......

I am happy to answer any and all questions on the Potential Sales Tax....

1. How much will my taxes go down? Show me the numbers $$

A...The Park District currently receives about 12% of the City Property Taxes...for the 2010 Year that is $1,120,000. The plan for the potential sales tax is to one of two options that is being discussed #1 is to drop the General Parks Mill Levy (24.12 Mills, 60% or roughly $670,000 of the Property tax) and keep the Specials, SS, Pension, Construction, and Recreation Mill Levy 16.17 mills, $450,000) #2 is to drop 100%.... The public just voted for the Recreation Mill Levy so is that something we should keep or drop??..... These are not set in stone....that is one reason we have a Sales Tax Committee formed with the City to work on such ideas. What is best for the Citizens of Williston and the Park District.....nothing has been finalized....just ideas on paper ...thinking outside the box....the idea to give back to the Taxpayers for a Sales Tax is thinking outside the box.

Here is a Budget for the how the revenue would be used
Sales Tax Concept
(based on 2007 One Cent Sales Tax revenue)
Park District Operations $1,300,000
Capital Improvements $450,000
New Equipment             $150,000
Annual Reserve              $100,000
Community Grant Fund or a Recreation Center Fund $200,000

Total $2,250,000

There is more to the concept....All youth (18 & under) would get usage of the Raymond Family Community Center, the Eckert Youth Outdoor Pool and the Municipal Golf Course free. Again, I feel this is giving back to you, the taxpayer.

The Sales Tax is not going to be implemented until after the School Districts is sunset.

Current 2010 budget for the Park District is $1,700,000.

2. Is this a permanent tax?   Tell me how much you need to get things updated - maybe add new facilities (ie: girls fastpitch field), fix up the old rec center or build a new one, fix the hockey arena....if its 10million then fine....but give me a dollar figure/limit! I don't think it needs to go on forever - what will they possibly spend all that $$ on....the whole school project has only taken a few years to payoff at current sales tax levels.

A. This is not set up to be a permanent tax...could be 5 years could be 10 years....that is also something the committee is looking at. The Park District is not opposed to a 5 year plan to get things updated, fixed, improved.....we do have a list of projects that we feel need to get fixed in the next 5 years ...around $5 million....we also have a list of projects to look at for the future...including the Rec Center...new or update the RFCC.....the Outdoor Pool will need renovation in the near future as well...

3. I would also like to see an annual audit.....are these even being done? Did I hear they just did a 3 year one? Don't be shy....show us the numbers!

A. The Park District just had the audits done for 2006 & 2007. This year we will be doing an audit on 2008 & 2009. If anyone wants a copy, please stop by and I can get you a copy.

I am willing to meet with anyone that wants to discuss the Sales Tax Concept or that has input. We want to make sure everyone is educated with the idea and will be hosting public forums in the future. But my door is open to anyone that wants to discuss it. Pro or Con....we are all entitled to our opinons and that is what makes our country great. We will not always agree but if we agree to disagree....good things happen.

I am almost sure back in 1980-1984...that the group that had a dream of a recreation center for Williston would be extremely proud of the facility and what it has meant to the Citizens of Williston and the surrounding area for the last 24 years!

Our (my) goal is to have the vision for our future generations to feel the same way about what we do in the next 5-10 years at the Park District...for the next 24 years or longer!!!!!

Sorry so long...but I will gladly answer ?'s on this website or take your call...

Darin Krueger
Director
Williston Parks & Recreation District
701-577-5141

Steve Powell · Guru

You mean we didn't chase them all away? biggrin

Tell Dave I promise not to pick on him anymore if he checks back in.

Clarke · Veteran Member

Randy

Unfortunatly I don't have time to dig into this now....a 5 min break a couple times a day is all I get right now :)

In a few more weeks I might see what I can find out about these questions. Maybe I'll give a heads up to my park board buddies about this post and they can post the answers back here for all to see!

JC

rwaitman · Senior Member

Clarke wrote:

I don't have a problem voting yes (and I can vote now :) ) for this sales tax issue if a few questions get answered first. I have discussed these a bit with a park board member but never really got a definitive answer:

1. How much will my taxes go down? Show me the numbers $$

2. Is this a permanent tax? Tell me how much you need to get things updated - maybe add new facilities (ie: girls fastpitch field), fix up the old rec center or build a new one, fix the hockey arena....if its 10million then fine....but give me a dollar figure/limit! I don't think it needs to go on forever - what will they possibly spend all that $$ on....the whole school project has only taken a few years to payoff at current sales tax levels.

3. I would also like to see an annual audit.....are these even being done? Did I hear they just did a 3 year one? Don't be shy....show us the numbers!

Just my opinions....

JC

Clarke:

Excellent post. You should call Darin and consider a request to ask these questions at a monthly park board meeting, or in the least have them added as an agenda item for public discussion.

They are all valid. The first two are kind of self-descriptive. In my opinion, your third question begs some clarification in the sense that while the Park Board has audits on a regular basis, it does not mean that anything happens. It sounds good when we say, "we were audited and it is over". They (the auditors) make recommendations and then the Board decides what they are going to do about it, if anything. This is not the same as when the IRS comes in and does an audit, or when the Attorney General or somebody decides they want to look at the books. That is when you "sweat bricks", simply because the big boys are here, even though there is no wrong-doing... and while I say that tongue-in-cheek, there is some merit to it.

All the books are open to the general public, with certain constraints. Go visit with them.

Again, your post is a perfect example of the good conversations we can have on this page if others will just join in.

;o)
R

Clarke · Veteran Member

I don't have a problem voting yes (and I can vote now :) ) for this sales tax issue if a few questions get answered first. I have discussed these a bit with a park board member but never really got a definitive answer:

1. How much will my taxes go down? Show me the numbers $$

2. Is this a permanent tax? Tell me how much you need to get things updated - maybe add new facilities (ie: girls fastpitch field), fix up the old rec center or build a new one, fix the hockey arena....if its 10million then fine....but give me a dollar figure/limit! I don't think it needs to go on forever - what will they possibly spend all that $$ on....the whole school project has only taken a few years to payoff at current sales tax levels.

3. I would also like to see an annual audit.....are these even being done? Did I hear they just did a 3 year one? Don't be shy....show us the numbers!

Just my opinions....

JC

rwaitman · Senior Member

Steve Powell wrote:

We need a new one because Dickinson has one...

Actually, the Raymond Center has a lot of worth. But it would be nice to have a nice year round location for swimming, nice basketball courts, etc...

Truly, go take a look at Dickinson's new rec center...you'll see what I mean.

The Raymond Center might need a serious overhaul, but the general facility is sound. If I recall, there was a plan for a third or last phase on that facility which included an expansion to the east. If you notice how the building sits you can easily see the many potential options there might be in a general expansion of the building, only limited by the vision of the next generation....

;o)
Randy

stacyslap · Veteran Member

They haven't disclosed how much property values will drop and I think that is a huge problem. I also don't think they need that much money to operate. What exactly would it pay for? Is the plan to build a new center? There are too many variables that haven't been answered.

Steve Powell · Guru

We need a new one because Dickinson has one... wink

Actually, the Raymond Center has a lot of worth. But it would be nice to have a nice year round location for swimming, nice basketball courts, etc...

Truly, go take a look at Dickinson's new rec center...you'll see what I mean.

vko · Senior Member

I can't vote anyway, but I can't figure out why the taxes on the houses in town are so high. And also why do we need a new rec. center? Can't the old one be fixed or updated? Where would a new one go? I am out of touch with the rec. center so a few questions I have.

-- Edited by vko on Tuesday 2nd of March 2010 06:12:39 PM

Steve Powell · Guru

I was under the impression that the property tax levy would drop, just not all the way.

My thoughts are that I wouldn't mind this tax as long as I knew exactly what it was going towards and and as long as it was not permanent. Perfect example would be a new rec center.

And, I know their books are public records but I would still like to see the audits, if there were any, from the past 3 years.

So to clarify, designate the funds to whatever is going to be improved, show audits, and don't make it permanent...

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why my scenario isn't right either but this is how it plays out in my obscure little brain. confuse

NDGirl · Veteran Member

I have to agree with you randy. From ready the articles in the herald, I get the impression they want the tax, and to keep the property tax high. I'm not sure of other people's property tax increases, but in the 5 years that we have owned our house, our property tax had trippled, and we havent really done any updates yet. I do realize that the property tax goes to the schools as well. My feeling is that since Parks and Rec finished in the black this year, they need to look at what they did differently in the past to 2009. Obviously, they did something right this past year to finish in the black.

rwaitman · Senior Member

I see that no one has posted for a while, so I will shake the bush a little.

Personally, I think we should just let the one cent tax die. I think there are too many variables, and too many negative outcomes of such a move.

One that immediately pops into mind is my fear that if the City gives it (the tax) over to the Parks and Rec, then they City will forever forego the possibility of introducing another similar tax. I cannot imagine that the citizens would allow such a move.

Another concern, is that there is no guarantee that the tax relief which we would be getting would be a 100% transfer of cost, dollar for dollar...

There are other issues, but these are hopefully a start for conversation...

As a former member of the Park Board, and understanding of the many difficulties in administering services for a community such as ours, I think that the Current Board should be congratulated for at least thinking outside the box, but in this instance, I say nay.

Discussion?

;o)
R

Steve Powell · Guru

I've heard rumors that the Middle School will actually be paying off their bond early...some say as early as the end of this year. If this is true...and someone please correct me if this is not true...what are your thoughts on what should happen with this tax?

So far I know of two options. 1. It goes away 2. Parks and Recreation inherits (or gets a new one of their own) it.

There's a lot of talk about this around town right now and there are very contrasting opinions. Many different arguments both for and against.

Is it a good idea to keep for another entity? Has it really affected people's pocketbook that much? Any TEA Party members here?