Williston, ND Active Issues

I visited with some average citizens, yet well informed from the Dickenson area yesterday. Do not be so quick to say the grass is greener on the other side. While visiting there is nice to see their investment, the average citizen complains that the fee to use their center is way to high. Many state it is out of the range now for them to feel it of a value for enjoyment. View and appearance was a huge trade off for the cost. I was told private centers which were also high and held contracts were not an option for many. So this was not a good deal to a group I visited with. They were older, some younger with MS..This was a segment that lost use of the facility due to cost.

So my question is, does it benefit their community more or less? Do they have to work more now at soliciting the games and events to operate?

How did those baseball fields get paid for?

This thread has still got many important statements on here. For all new people who would like to review, there are several areas that pertain to the proposed penny sales tax for the parks and rec. What are your thoughts?

One thing to always remember....there is a use for the right button on a mouse.

Sue Evans wrote:

---

I am not sure how to cut and paste.

---

 That's funny....my wife had to show me how, twice...and I still got it wrong.

I can do it now, but don't know how to explain it...Steve or any other computer geek we have in the membership...can you help her out...

;o)

R

Sue Evans wrote:

---

(bold italic underlined are Sue's comments RW)

I doubt Larry will speak on this board again. There were only ideas entertained at our TEA Party meeting the evening he spoke. 

Actually, Larry has yet to "speak" on this Board. More appropriately, he has talked "at" us.   I am still hoping.
I'm glad that you are forthright enough to say that there were only ideas entertained, rather than specific questions, and apparently the discussion got rather heated.  However, aggressive questioning  should really have not been a reason for a  Member, Commissioner, or President of a Board to refuse to talk to the organization or association, again or answer other questions from other groups. 

I understand the park board is angry - with me and my group.

I seriously doubt that the Park Board is angry, with either you or your group.  The Board is a collection of independent individuals, who generally govern by consensus, not, as some citizens would have it, ruled by an Army of One, which is undoubtedly a common perception. Do NOT make apologies!

The TEA Party doesn't exactly belong to me. I am just a member of. I am not that powerful. I hope everyone here understands that.

The Tea Party is a unified group of irate citizens who have banded together... who are, as the old saw goes...'mad as h-ll and are not gonna take it no more.'   I have a lot of respect for that.  Because of the highly charged emotionally driven aspect of this philosophy...the group, collectively, is branded with titles such as kooks and wackos and all sorts of rubbish from those who are deathly afraid of them and their potential power.


I feel I should clarify this due to a letter I got on my web site. It stated something about me and my group. It was fairly hot headed about me and my group and the park board issue at the rally tonight.

Why don't you post it on this page?  Some of us do not read your website. Let us discuss it and dissect it.  A simple cut and paste would put it on here on another thread.


Now I was asked what I do for the community.  

Focus on what you want to do for the community now....  Just because you are a newcomer to the joys of local politics by no means eliminates you.  The bigger question is going to be how you hold up under pressure...you are being tested.  How you respond after the elections and lose (or not, of course). Will you be gracious? Will you be courteous? Will you pledge your support as a loyal but dissenting member of the community..and so on and so on.... that will be the proof of the pudding.  Then......there will be another election cycle and people will ask you what you do for the community....

Do not be disheartened.


Sorry guys....this post was off topic...maybe we can move it to another thread.

;o)
R

 

The answers we got that night were not specific. There has not been one concrete issue yet. It seemed the majority felt starting a grant program (much like the star fund) should not be on the table. That along with the "Free" admissions appeared as if the board understood they were obtaining much more than needed for the projects at hand. Perhaps could they consider an amount smaller than a full penny? Narrow the focus to the projects at hand and forget about adding more to the plate such as grant programs and of course administration costs to host such issues.

I want to take a second and give you an update of where things are at with the One Cent Sales Tax for the Park District....I have been very busy working on the Sales Tax and with the Playground being built and summer is around the corner, so I have not had a ton of time to post on here....

Anyways...

We have had 2 meetings so far...nothing has been decided or finalized.

When we have a final proposal...I for sure will get it posted on here for all to see.

This will not be on the June Ballot....as I said before we are taking a hard look at this and want to make sure we do this right for the community of Williston.  This is looking outside the box to help the Parks and Recreation accomplish some great things for the community.

Steve...as for the article in the paper on the Dickinson Rec Center...I thought it was a well written article showing what can or could be done with some extra monies put towards the Parks and Recreation.  Could we or will we have a new Recreation Center???   It is a dream...and if we dont dream it...it has no chance of happening....(Playground, Raymond Center, The Well, Hockey Arena all were dreams at one time!)

Our goal (Park Board and myself) is to make sure we educate every citizen that can vote on the Sales Tax.  After they have the information, then the can individually make a decision on the Sales Tax...that is why we live in America...

If anyone has any questions, please post them here or call me or Call Larry...We will answer them to the best of our ability.  Or come to a Park Board Meeting...3rd tuesdays 5:30 at City Hall....We will answer the questions....

Thanks for the time...

Darin K
Director
Williston Parks and Recreation
577-5141 W

-- Edited by DarinK on Wednesday 14th of April 2010 11:18:24 AM

Grondahl wrote:

---

Apparently Mr. Waitman did not read my post.....my phone number is 770-7897 and we have a Park Board meeting next Tuesday at 5:30 pm at city hall and you are welcome to discuss it with us and ask questions.....give me a call if you have questions about the one cent sales tax...I am ALWAYS glad to discuss it with anyone, that way you can get the facts from the ones closest to it  without listening (or reading) everyone elses interpretation...I look forward to hearing from you all!!!

---

Apparently, I did.  You are still not answering questions.    I look forward to hearing from you.

;o)
R

 

This was a query from Sue Evans on another thread....I just cut and pasted it since it was relevant to the one cent tax subject.... 

I understand Larry's frustration. We did try to issue some other ideas when he spoke at our group. There were a couple of people that had issues with the golf course. We did try and stay on topic.
1. Did the park board require a full penny to accomplish this list?
2. Did the park board require a full ten years of this tax?
3. If they would agree to lessen the "free" items how quickly could this be tackled?
4. Would this tax take care of the problem?
5. Could they better direct the donations towards what they do need rather than a maint. exp. down the line? For instance, groups wishing to provide donations to our park system, refuse what we can not maintain.
6. Would we get a guarantee that the funds would be spent/allocated towards the projects set forth?

If the park board was insistant on setting up a fund for surrounding communities, what is the exact region this fund would cover?

We felt concrete answers to be very valid points. The surrounding communities enjoy our parks. All are welcome.

None of us want to see the parks deteriorate. In the same token, fiscal responsibility. What do we fully need, and how can it be done. The most cost effective manner.

There were people at that meeting I had never seen before and have not seen at one of our meetings since. Our parks people were hard hit. It was not just a TEA Party issue the night they spoke at our group. Much like this forum, we are open to all. 

 

---

Sue:

 Did you get answers?  Were they logical and clear?

;o)
R

rwaitman wrote:

---

Sue Evans wrote:

---

 

From what I have seen thus far I must agree. We should retire the 1 cent tax. This board recently learned that with the increase we have had in our region they are dealing with more funds than originally thought. I know they were not fully aware of when the current penny was to retire when they approached the city commission. I am also aware that this board does not intend to ever retire this tax. They want to administer their own form of a grant/community fund. So will there be a double dip issue with the property tax?

I have not seen concrete projections. What is the full tax dollar figure issued by the auditor's office?

---

I, and others, have asked on this page for some free question and answer time from the Director of Parks and Rec, and the President. Although Darin said he was happy to reply to questions, he has not. Larry, on the other hand flat out, does not respond.

Guess we can just go ahead and talk about it our ownselves....and hope that somebody at least has a light bulb go off over their heads...

After reading the Herald article interviewing James Kramer of Dickinson, and thinking about the sales tax more and more, I am inclined to suggest that we (the citizens) keep the tax on the books. 

The general population has for the most part accepted it as a minor pain-in-the-hiney, but with some good outcomes. 

The problem, is deciding how to best utilize the revenues garnered from such a windfall.

My gut reaction is to say do not, no way, no how, allow any single entity to get their hands on that revenue source.  But then the question comes....who is gonna determine where it goes?

Obviously, not the people running the various segments of the community and area, not those with a dog in the hunt (golly I do love metaphors).

Imagine...if you could get a group of upstanding citizens, with impeccable credentials, a reputation for honesty and integrity, no hidden agendas, loaded with selflessness of character, and put them in charge of determining where the largesse goes....WOW! 

I am in favor of building a new outdoor pool, maybe even one with an indoor splash park, or one built indoors in conjunction with the new Community Builders park.  The sky is the limit.  However, you are talking about multi-year committments of money and I don't think a single entity with multiple agendas is the group to control those monies. There must be oversight, checks and balances, and guidance to prevent any potential for diverting any of the money for other needs or perceived needs.


The controlling committee could even provide relief in increments to property owners by using portions of the tax money to pay down things like special assessments, and other pocket-book emptying costs we incur for living in Williston...

This money could generate many good things, with very little pain to us as individuals.

In a nutshell, I guess we should commend the Park Board for initiating the idea of continuation of the tax and using the money for progress...but should still think beyond the initial vision for ways to help the entire community...simple property tax relief is nice, but it probably would never go away anyhow.

;o)

R

 

---

ooops!

...I apologize to Darin....I read the questions people have asked out of order...and actually, it looks like nobody has actually asked him anything that he would need to respond to.

Sorry Man!

If you have a question about the tax, send it on to him, and I betcha he will reply.

;o)
R

Sue Evans wrote:

---

From what I have seen thus far I must agree. We should retire the 1 cent tax. This board recently learned that with the increase we have had in our region they are dealing with more funds than originally thought. I know they were not fully aware of when the current penny was to retire when they approached the city commission. I am also aware that this board does not intend to ever retire this tax. They want to administer their own form of a grant/community fund. So will there be a double dip issue with the property tax?

I have not seen concrete projections. What is the full tax dollar figure issued by the auditor's office?

---

I, and others, have asked on this page for some free question and answer time from the Director of Parks and Rec, and the President. Although Darin said he was happy to reply to questions, he has not. Larry, on the other hand flat out, does not respond.

Guess we can just go ahead and talk about it our ownselves....and hope that somebody at least has a light bulb go off over their heads...

After reading the Herald article interviewing James Kramer of Dickinson, and thinking about the sales tax more and more, I am inclined to suggest that we (the citizens) keep the tax on the books. 

The general population has for the most part accepted it as a minor pain-in-the-hiney, but with some good outcomes. 

The problem, is deciding how to best utilize the revenues garnered from such a windfall.

My gut reaction is to say do not, no way, no how, allow any single entity to get their hands on that revenue source.  But then the question comes....who is gonna determine where it goes?

Obviously, not the people running the various segments of the community and area, not those with a dog in the hunt (golly I do love metaphors).

Imagine...if you could get a group of upstanding citizens, with impeccable credentials, a reputation for honesty and integrity, no hidden agendas, loaded with selflessness of character, and put them in charge of determining where the largesse goes....WOW! 

I am in favor of building a new outdoor pool, maybe even one with an indoor splash park, or one built indoors in conjunction with the new Community Builders park.  The sky is the limit.  However, you are talking about multi-year committments of money and I don't think a single entity with multiple agendas is the group to control those monies. There must be oversight, checks and balances, and guidance to prevent any potential for diverting any of the money for other needs or perceived needs.


The controlling committee could even provide relief in increments to property owners by using portions of the tax money to pay down things like special assessments, and other pocket-book emptying costs we incur for living in Williston...

This money could generate many good things, with very little pain to us as individuals.

In a nutshell, I guess we should commend the Park Board for initiating the idea of continuation of the tax and using the money for progress...but should still think beyond the initial vision for ways to help the entire community...simple property tax relief is nice, but it probably would never go away anyhow.

;o)

R

 

Steve Powell wrote:

---

rwaitman wrote:

---

 

Grondahl wrote:

---

Anyone who wants to address our board is always welcome and during my time as president, we ALWAYS allow people to speak unlike past Presidents........Again, anyone is welcome to address our Board at any time........that is the current philosophy of our board and will continue to do so.....

---

We...are...having...a....conversation. 

I expressed an opinion ( I know it looked like a Larry Larsen editorial and am kind of sorry for that), and you replied with a brief and succint counterpoint opinion disagreeing with my perception, and I am writing in reply disagreeing with your assessment.

I particularly liked your little bit of a dig and gentle sarcasm. Awesome!

My question is....when you allow these people to speak, do you answer them?  With a real answer?

Regardless...what we have confirmed, since you have become a semi-regular poster, is that you are willing to speak on this forum, and have proven that you are competent enough with usage of the written word to hold your own with the best, or worst of us, if you prefer.

You have already expressed a willingness to answer questions, via phone calls, at Park Board Meetings, in front of the Tea Party, and I presume, in front of various community groups such as the Chamber of Commerce, maybe the Korner Lions, the American Legion, or other civic gatherings or organizations in the community.  What is wrong with sharing your message and vision with those of us who write and and read the issues here?

Your only argument against visiting with the members of this group appears to be that they (we) are "hiding behind our keyboards". Not so.  So far I am not seeing that.  Additionally, Steve Powell has stated he, as Moderator of this forum is more than willing to disallow the usage of unsigned posts, and, I imagine, to edit those of questionable nature. 

If you will scroll back through some of the recent posts (you can skip mine as they probably  bore you anyway) and read what Jeff Clarke wrote, maybe you could answer his questions and all of us would learn something about the one cent tax from your answers.

Sue Evans asked several pertinent and reasonable questions, and if you answer those on this forum, then we could actually start having some constructive discussion.

;o)
R

 

-- Edited by rwaitman on Monday 12th of April 2010 07:40:22 AM

-- Edited by rwaitman on Monday 12th of April 2010 07:41:12 AM

---

Heck yeah!  And we're a lot gentler than some of the more radical tea party folk!!

 

---

Yepper....you got that right....and everytime I look at them on the tv....I think I recognize one of my cousins from down south...

;o)
R

 

Grondahl wrote:

---

Anyone who wants to address our board is always welcome and during my time as president, we ALWAYS allow people to speak unlike past Presidents........Again, anyone is welcome to address our Board at any time........that is the current philosophy of our board and will continue to do so.....

---

We...are...having...a....conversation. 

I expressed an opinion ( I know it looked like a Larry Larsen editorial and am kind of sorry for that), and you replied with a brief and succint counterpoint opinion disagreeing with my perception, and I am writing in reply disagreeing with your assessment.

I particularly liked your little bit of a dig and gentle sarcasm. Awesome!

My question is....when you allow these people to speak, do you answer them?  With a real answer?

Regardless...what we have confirmed, since you have become a semi-regular poster, is that you are willing to speak on this forum, and have proven that you are competent enough with usage of the written word to hold your own with the best, or worst of us, if you prefer.

You have already expressed a willingness to answer questions, via phone calls, at Park Board Meetings, in front of the Tea Party, and I presume, in front of various community groups such as the Chamber of Commerce, maybe the Korner Lions, the American Legion, or other civic gatherings or organizations in the community.  What is wrong with sharing your message and vision with those of us who write and and read the issues here?

Your only argument against visiting with the members of this group appears to be that they (we) are "hiding behind our keyboards". Not so.  So far I am not seeing that.  Additionally, Steve Powell has stated he, as Moderator of this forum is more than willing to disallow the usage of unsigned posts, and, I imagine, to edit those of questionable nature. 

If you will scroll back through some of the recent posts (you can skip mine as they probably  bore you anyway) and read what Jeff Clarke wrote, maybe you could answer his questions and all of us would learn something about the one cent tax from your answers.

Sue Evans asked several pertinent and reasonable questions, and if you answer those on this forum, then we could actually start having some constructive discussion.

;o)
R

 

-- Edited by rwaitman on Monday 12th of April 2010 07:40:22 AM

-- Edited by rwaitman on Monday 12th of April 2010 07:41:12 AM

I was asked yesterday why I was not all excited about an opportunity to go to a Park Board Meeting and ask questions about the proposal to give the 1 cent sales tax to the Park District.  After a lengthy defense of my position, I thought that I might as well go ahead and post my opinion on this page in the interest of sharing another perspective on the open ended invitation to attend meetings.  It may or may not bore you, and you may or may not agree with me. That is fine. I would love to talk about it with any and all comers.

Frst some background.  I served on the Williston Park Board from the Summer of 1992 to the Summer of 2004. I was elected 3 times to the seat, each time with more candidates than open seats.  I served as President of the Williston Park Board from 2002-2004.  

I am a firm believer in term limits.  Now before you get all hot and bothered, remember this is only my personal philosophy, so I am not being judgemental. I have a number of friends who take a strong opposing stance, but we are still friends. At least one of them is a lawyer who regularly deals in constitutional law and thinks I am nuts. We have had some good debates.  Welcome to my world.  After three terms, I felt that it was time to encourage new blood and a fresh vision to the WPR and chose not to run again.  I felt then, and still do, that I could contribute to the greater good of the community, and hope to continue to do so but in some other position. This is my town, too. My kids, their wives, and my grandkids live here.   That is one reason why I continue to post up on this page.  I really wish some of the "Elders" of the community would take advantage of this website as a forum to share their experience and know-how. 

Having said that...The Williston Park Board, unless its' policy has changed, adheres to Roberts Rules of Order, if only loosely at times.  This means that the Agendas for monthly meetings are set in advance.  The Board meets monthly to handle their official business. These monthly meetings are NOT public forums. The public is always invited, but they are invited to listen and watch, not to have a give and take with the Board, unless (and this is important) the Board chooses to do so.  The Board Meetings are moderated and guided by the President. 

If you petition the Board, through a member, or the President, to be on the Agenda to talk about a specific issue, they will generally allow you to step up and express your thoughts, or ask your questions.  Based on my own experiences, you will get to talk and ask your questions, will usually get a glib non-answer if the issue is controversial, and it will be tabled or referred to committee for further consideration....Then the Board Members get to pontificate, get in some good sound bytes, and quotes for the paper and local news...and then life goes on.

If you are combative, or drone on and on, or meander and ramble in all four directions of the compass, you will be cut short.

So, in a nutshell, that is my position on that.  Now how about some creative dialogue and discussion?

;o)
R

Thanks Larry.  Great day today!!  The playground equipment is here!!!

Larry, at the very least, can you post the dates and times of the public forums?

we also will be having public forums.....good place to discuss it, along with our monthly Park Board meetings.....hope to see you all at some of those....

My cell # is 770-7897.......I would be glad to discuss the one cent sales tax with anyone who wants to.........I look forward to hearing from all of you.......

"Sorry so long...but I will gladly answer ?'s on this website or take your call...

Darin Krueger"


We recently saw posts by both the Williston Parks and Recreation Director, Darin Krueger (quote posted above), and from Larry Grondahl, the President of the Williston Park Board.

Darin took the very pro-active approach that he was willing to answer questions regarding the concept and vision they have for the continuation and transfer of the current 1 cent tax held by the city which will expire if not addressed, in the near future, either in person, or via internet (this website).

Larry, on the other hand, believes that anyone with questions should either address him privately, or the respective board by attending a meeting, or by some other personal communication. His feeling is that people posting on the website are "hiding behind their keyboards".

My feeling is, that while the website IS a public forum, and is very much in the public arena, I understand his discomfort with writing answers rather than just verbally replying to questions. In the course of recent postings, there are very few posters who do not use their name, thus, in my opinion, questions asked should be treated exactly the same as if they were asked in person. 

There is no question that since its' inception, we have established on this website that people and voters from this area DO read the posts.

We have also established that both the Director of Parks and Rec, and the President of the Williston Park Board are among those readers, casual or otherwise and have been bold enough to actually post something.

So....I am asking, that both Darin and Larry, freely express their opinions on the subject of the sales tax, and tell us their vision, and show us the Why, and the How they feel about it.  Then allow us the freedom to ask them questions that we would like to have answers to, in a respectful and non-confrontational manner, and with mutual respect.

There is also no doubt that these two gentlemen hold in their hands, the most up to date and specific knowledge about the proposal for the one cent tax. I would like to know more.

If we can establish in the minds of local citizens, on this page, that civility, agreement, and disagreement can exist at the same time in an atmosphere of cooperation, then possibly others in the community will be emboldened by that, and choose to take part.

what say you? Larry and Darin?

;o)
R

vko wrote:

---

I can't vote anyway, but I can't figure out why the taxes on the houses in town are so high.  And also why do we need a new rec. center?  Can't the old one be fixed or updated?  Where would a new one go?  I am out of touch with the rec. center so a few questions I have.

-- Edited by vko on Tuesday 2nd of March 2010 06:12:39 PM

---

I heard someone say the property tax evals are up to compensate the tax abatements that have been given to outside, builders to bring in hotels, apartments, etc...  Anyone think this could be true?

ps...just want to give a shout out to my favorite ex-boss!!   Whaddup BKB!!! 

 

Last night KX news reported that the Petition went through to abolish state property tax. 11% state sales tax here we come. that would make williston sales tax, 13.5% if we continue with the one cent sales tax. While I think we need a steady revenue for the Parks and Rec, as well as the city, 13.5% is going to be quite a bit higher when buying everyday goods.
http://www.kxnet.com/custom404.asp?404;http://www.kxnet.com/news/547303.asp

Interesting point.  So if the state eliminates property taxes, how do entities that depend on the mil get their money?  School districts, parks, etc...?

I had hoped that someone else would post in the last little bit in regards to the 1 cent sales tax proposal, but rather than let it fade into the background, I will add some more.

I just read the article in the Herald regarding the exploration committee and the recent update to the ideas and found it quite interesting.

There is definite substance to the need for efforts in finding funding on behalf of necessary projects in the community, and in particular aging infrastructure in the Park District.

The stated mission of the Williston Parks and Recreation is to provide recreational opportunities to all.  The Outdoor Pool would fall within that category.  The Raymond Family Recreation Center would as well.  Other projects could also merit consideration.

I am in favor of finding constructive ways to satisfy those needs, including but not limited to, usage of a value added tax (VAT).  As Larry Grondahl so kindly pointed out, because of my long time (three terms) experience on the Park Board, I, of all people should be aware of these needs.  Very astute, and quite true; because I was paying attention during those years is exactly the reason why I went on record cautioning the wholesale release of a very large amount of money for a one cent tax when I felt that budgeting might better serve in several of the instances that Darin (Director of Parks and Recreation) proposed.  I simply expressed my disagreement with that approach as a primary focus, of generating revenues, not as an effort to torpedo the idea of using some of that tax money for Park District Projects. 

I have been off the Park Board for a number of years, and of course, as is often the case, I have only generally, but not closely, followed issues and projects.  However, if I am understanding it correctly, the the Park District revenues accrued from the current levy have almost doubled from those of my years on the board.  Additionally, during my tenure, we completed a number of large projects of merit, within the constraints of our much more modest budget.

Other than the recent renovation and expansion of the tennis complex in Davidson Park, I am not aware of significant projects of the scope of those of some years back, which have been completed in times since.  I might be wrong in that perception, but would be happy to discuss it, particulary since it is within the general scope of what we are talking about. 

I am hoping that we can talk not only about the RFCC, but also about the indoor pool, the outdoor pool, and the community golf course, as they are major factors in the infrastructure of the park District. 

Anybody care to inject some input?


;o)

R

 I am not against continuing the 1 cent sales tax per se.  What I am against is a blank check to Parks and Recreation..or any other group for that matter,for the kind of dollars we are talking about.

How about this....given that the infrastructure of Williston Parks District is aging, and much of it requires maintenance and/or renovation.....

a) City keeps the one cent tax, and extends sunset...not to infinity, and assuredly of course by support at the polls by the general voter consensus.

b) The City selects, approves, elects, and/or appoints an oversight and project development committee consisting of upstanding citizens in the community who may or may not bring special skills to this committee, specifically to construct or renovate Park District Facilities.  Not programs or operations,...those should continue to be the realm of WP&Rec.  Someone might say this is a blatant attempt to take over the role of Park Board, but I believe it is better construed as a community and area wide concept to assist the Park District for projects that are likely beyond the scope of the District itself.  A Project Designer and Manager might be enlisted much the same as the idea for the Middle School, and taking advantage of the Can-Do spirit of this community....we could get'er done....

c)  Two such projects come to mind immediately....complete the final phase of the Raymond Center with input but not control from the Parks and Recreation, which would include a budget for up dates and renovation of the current facility, and build a new state of the art Outdoor community Pool.  The old pool will, in the near future, need replacement, what better time than now. The doom and gloomers complain about Dickinson's and other communities' premier facilities and this would be a chance to to take advantage of the abundant dollars in this good economy. Many of the individual corporations and citizens would likely get on board with such projects if approached in the proper manner. The boom cycle will not last, we should take advantage of it while we can.

These are just my immediate random thoughts on th topic and are the tip of the iceberg but are to encourage dialog, not to provoke anyone....it might be a good compromise for a straight out give away to any one group.

;o)
R