Williston, ND Active Issues

Mommyof2 · Senior Member

RE: Smoking ban

nd.citizen · Senior Member

Do we need a law for everything? Woudn't it just make good sense for the bar owners to make the decision to be a smoking or non-smoking bar? If we had both, then customers and employees would have a choice where they want to be.

I know some bar owners feel like they would lose business if they went non-smoking. However, there are far more non-smokers now than smokers. And there are soooo many people who don't like smoke. I'm pretty sure that non-smoking bars would make it ok even if there were still smoking bars competing with them.

zwaitman · Member

While I dont hang out at many of the bars in Williston, I do frequent the
J-Dubs, formerly the Rivers Edge. I think Jeremy has the perfect set-up with smoking on one side and smoke free on the other side. Im not one for cigarette smoke myself but I can go in there and hang out for a while and not have to worry about it when I leave.

Steve Powell · Guru

yes...

gundo · Senior Member

Colorado has been smoke in bars since July 1, 2006. The only bars that can remain smoking establishments are private clubs or cigar bars(places that derive at least 5 percent, or $50,000, of annual sales from "tobacco products" and the rental of on-site humidors for storing cigars), now most of the places have designated smoking places outside, or have constructed porches where the smoking is allowed.

Last I heard there is 1 establishment in Williston that is smoke free, the El Rancho. I understand the whole "smokers rights" fight. I also understand the fight that the bars will loose business. But that does not seem to the case.

It definately was a shock to the system to be back in Williston and visit the other establishments and be reminded of what it is/was like to be in establishments that allowed smoking.

Am I 100% sold that it has to come down to the government making the ruling, much like speeding, dui blood levels, and seatbelts. Not entirely.

But what about those that like to be able to visit the bars and don't have an option with 150 other people smoking? I know, I know, go somewhere else, right? But should they(the non smoker) really have to?

vko · Senior Member

What is there fairness in Business? Montana Construction Workers can come over the Border with not one little bit of anything. If we even think to go to Montana, we need License on every trailor and Vehicle. We need to be Registered and We need Workers Comp in two states. But yet North Dakota does not do this for Construction Workers from Montana. Oh Well so much for Fairness. And they can bring their Material over the border (TAX FREE) and not send it in to North Dakota. Although they are suppose to. ( I know I was suppose to stay on the subject.)

-- Edited by vko at 18:30, 2009-01-30

Jibslider · Senior Member

In my opinion, I am all for smoking bans in government and public places, but when it comes to private businesses such as bars I am against it. There are plenty of smoke free bars that people can frequent if they do not like drinking inside a cancer cloud, and the same goes with hotel rooms. Also, if you do not like working inside a cancer cloud, you can find work elsewhere.

I for one will always seek out establishments that do not allow smoking. I'd rather see a ban on talking on your cell phone in public. furious

Mommyof2 · Senior Member

Well, thats a very valid point...and i guess to answer your question, no...i'm not too worried about my losing my job. I don't think the bar business would totally die.. (unless of course everyone dies from the second hand smoke in there....hahaha )

So what do YOU think? Did I miss your personal opinion somewhere?

Steve Powell wrote:

OK...how's this for a valid reason.

You get your wish for smoke free...according to your thoughts you feel the business could potentially suffer from the law. So now your business sees fewer patrons, has less income and now needs your services less than it did before. Are you worried about your job?

Not saying that I'm aware of stats to prove the above scenario but I'm trying to help you by using your logic. Which if you really think about it...bars that offer a "smoking" environment offer a form of "competition" (for lack of a better term) to the bars that don't. So if you take that form of "competition" away, everyone is back on a level playing field making your scenario even more likely. At least that's how it plays out in my mind.

Congrats on the 3 weeks!!! I wish you the best of luck and complete success in your battle!!

vko · Senior Member

In a town in California they just ruled you cannot smoke in your own home, apartment if it is connected to another home or apartment. It is coming down to this but if they are going to outlaw smoking and irritating people - then I wish they would outlaw some of those horrible perfumes and colognes. I am a smoker but understand why people don't want to be around it. Just don't tell me what I can or cannot do in my own home or on my property.

Steve Powell · Guru

OK...how's this for a valid reason.

You get your wish for smoke free...according to your thoughts you feel the business could potentially suffer from the law. So now your business sees fewer patrons, has less income and now needs your services less than it did before. Are you worried about your job?

Not saying that I'm aware of stats to prove the above scenario but I'm trying to help you by using your logic. Which if you really think about it...bars that offer a "smoking" environment offer a form of "competition" (for lack of a better term) to the bars that don't. So if you take that form of "competition" away, everyone is back on a level playing field making your scenario even more likely. At least that's how it plays out in my mind. confuse

Congrats on the 3 weeks!!! I wish you the best of luck and complete success in your battle!!

Mommyof2 · Senior Member

I'm on the fence here.......

Being that I'm now a non-smoker (3 weeks today (: ) I would love to be able to go to the bar and not have to deal with it.

Being that I WORK in the bar, I see how many people go there and are smoking. I would hate to have bar owner around town suffer a loss right now with this kind of economy. I'm almost positive that the bars wouldn't get "busier" because there is a smoking ban.

I don't know...i just don't know......some one make so more valid points so I can make up my mind here.........unfortunatly for the bar owners....i'm leaning more towards smoke free ........

Steve Powell · Guru

I absolutley agree. I choose no smoking bars myself. Which is the beauty of capitalism. Private business can choose who their patrons are w/out the government telling them who they should or shouldn't be.

But what about the argument that OSHA inspects these places for safe work environments and safe food for consumers?

Considering all the scientific proof of how unhealthy smoking is and how it's costing millions of dollars in health care costs, would it be worthwhile for the government to consider it an illegal substance? Would this trigger also then the cries to close McDonalds and other types of fast food restaurants considering the potential negative health effects grease-burgers have?

OR, is there someway to educate, educate, educate moderation? Anything that is proven not to be habit forming can be ingested in moderation without adverse effects. Correct?

Willistonrecguy · Veteran Member

Ya know it never used to bother me. But now that I am quite a few years removed from he bar scene. I hate going into bars where there is smoking and will avoid it if possible. So i will never make a big fight for bars to go no smoking, but if your bar allows smoking I probably will not come to your bar.

The next morning I can feel it in my throught and lungs and I hate my clothes smelling like smoke.

Steve Powell · Guru

Here's an article I read on the Herald website. Interesting topic that I think people differ on but can really discuss in a peaceful manner. This also plays a fairly big role for some businesses in the area. I'll post the article and join the discussion once everyone else has had a chance to read. Enjoy!!

Jan 29, 8:32 PM EST

To smoke or not to smoke in bars? ND battle joined

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BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) -- North Dakota's smoking ban in public workplaces would be extended to bars and motel rooms under a proposal its advocates say is justified by new, compelling evidence of the hazards of secondhand smoke.

Tavern and motel owners pushed back Thursday at a North Dakota House Political Subdivisions Committee hearing on the legislation, saying their employees and customers know smoking's risks and choose businesses that allow it.

"I have been in business for 15 years," said Allan Leier, owner of the Main Bar in Bismarck. "I have thrown many people out of my bar, but I have never thrown anyone in. I have never forced anyone to work for me."

The U.S. surgeon general has reported that nonsmokers can suffer from even small, brief whiffs of tobacco exhaust. Dr. Terry Dwelle, North Dakota's health officer, said studies have shown that smoke-free laws have greatly reduced the risks of heart, breathing and circulatory problems among nonsmokers.

"There is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke," Dwelle said. "It interferes with the normal functioning of the heart, with the blood and with the blood vessels in ways that increase the risk of heart attack."

The 2005 Legislature approved a smoking ban in most indoor workplaces that were accessible to the public, including restaurants and retail stores. It had exemptions, including bars, enclosed areas of truck stops, designated motel rooms and tobacco shops.

Since then, the city of Fargo has banned smoking in bars. The Legislature has rejected a proposal for a statewide smoking ban in taverns.

The new legislation, sponsored by Rep. Joyce Kingsbury, R-Grafton, would completely ban smoking in bars and motels.

Abolishing the motel exemption would protect employees who must clean the rooms where smoking is allowed, Kingsbury said.

"When a hotel or motel has certain rooms designated as smoking, those rooms are constantly saturated, making the housekeepers vulnerable to dangerous levels of residue from the secondhand smoke," she said. "There's no way you can get away from it."

Kingbury's bill would continue to allow smoking in tobacco shops and enclosed areas of truck stops that are off limits to children. She testified Thursday that a bid to eliminate all the law's exemptions was not considered politically realistic.

"North Dakota has taken small steps in going smoke-free," Kingsbury said.

Bill Shalhoob, managing partner of the Select Inn in Bismarck, said North Dakotans who want to avoid smokers already have the option of booking rooms in nonsmoking motels. Even motels that allow smoking confine it to a small number of rooms, he said.

A complete ban on smoking in motel rooms would be unusual among states, Shalhoob said. "This goes way beyond what we need," he said. "The industry will take care of it by itself."

A procession of bar owners and representatives said a smoking ban in taverns would drive away many of their most frequent customers. They said they should have the final say about whether smoking was allowed in their businesses.

"The bottom line here is, it's the freedom. I should choose. Nobody else," said Rich Wenninger, who owns the Quencher Bar in Hague, a rural community in Emmons County in south central North Dakota. "This is my tavern. I should decide who smokes in there, not the state of North Dakota."

Arlan Scholl, a trustee of Bismarck's Elks Lodge, said the lodge has a smoking and a nonsmoking bar, and the one where smoking is allowed is vastly more popular.

"If you really, really want to be healthy, why are you going to a bar?" Scholl said. "Is it for the pickled eggs, the personal pizza, the pretzels, the popcorn?"

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The bill is HB1213.