I'm all for beating clowns. Actually, if you hold a job of being a clown you should be beaten senseless. Homey the Clown was the only funny clown. "Homey don't play dat."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QhuBIkPXn0

(I guess I like youtube.)

Yup. I agree.  Poor Poor Clowns :(   Everyone always talking about beating the elephants....no one stops to think about how TERRIBLE the clowns feet must be to have to wear SHOES THAT BIG!!   

yeah.. ditto Steve.. interesting topic.. just having a little fun.

Language.. I didn't see any bad language.. oh well...

Regarding animials and their feelings:

I bet the sparrow looks at the parrot and thinks, yes, you can talk, but listen to yourself!

I bet elephants look at us and thinks:  Yeah I look kind of funny but I'm bigger than you.

====================================================
It's the clowns in the circus I think need to go.. not the elephants!

To me, clowns aren't funny. In fact, they're kind of scary. I've wondered where this started and I think it goes back to the time I went to the circus, and a clown killed my dog...(Jack Handy)

But really though, even that Burger King dude scares me and I have bad dreams about that dude!

 

-- Edited by SKM at 04:03, 2008-09-02

I like these myself. Anyone who has ever provoked or mistreated ANY kind of an animal and the result is being scratched, bitten, barked at, hissed at, growled at or just plain having your arm pretty much twisted off.  They very much deserve every bit of it.  Chalk one up for the animals. (Too bad they are so far behind.)

WARNING: Don't watch if you are squeemish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er2VH83xMgQ

-- Edited by Carnell at 20:03, 2008-07-31

Jan Albertson wrote:

---

 

Steve Powell wrote:

---

but a leopard doesn't change its spots
If it threatened the leopards livelyhood and meant possible MONGO fines it would.

So it's not at all possible that the tasers and bullhooks have stopped since 2003? You guys aren't willing to give any props for at least making an effort to comply?

Hmm...makes me wonder if doing the research myself was worth it. I was hoping we could make headway on seeing in the middle. Nevermind.

And if you saw my house at 9:00 pm, which is the kids' bedtime, you'd see that not all circuses are bad.

---

YA KNOW WHAT.....I'M OUT
GO TO THE CIRCUS THEN


-- Edited by Jan Albertson at 13:50, 2008-07-31

 

---

Don't say I didn't warn you! ROCKS!!!! You give them info that they are incapable of finding themselves, but when you do, they can't comprehend it anyway. They ask about violations, you give them some. They ask about why the elephants feet are such a big deal (?) and you provide a nonbiased veterinarian's opinion about CAPTIVE elephants and the severity of what can happen from the result of foot injuries. Common sense SHOULD tell people that if it is a struggle in a zoo setting where they are at least TRYING to provide a somewhat simulated habitat, and veterinary care that the problem would be MAGNIFIED 1000% if an animal is to stand in an enclosed trailer for weeks with limited exercise and standing in their own urine. HELLO!!!!!  That was just ONE problem, not ALL of the problems.  You show them a video of an abusive trainer and oh, "maybe he has changed." Maybe he is just more careful about  people coming into the training barn with cameras!!!! Even If by small stretch of the imagination the trainer is no longer beating the elephants, they are still stuck in urine infested trailers for most of their lives. Apparantly that's not abuse! Oh, OK! Yet when asked for 10 good things about a circus the only response is "my kids love it". Kids love a number of things that are not good for them. It is up to the PARENT to educate their children and teach compassion for other things. It is apparant that most of you have none! Nothing else I can do, you guys are on your own!   

 

Steve Powell wrote:

---

but a leopard doesn't change its spots
If it threatened the leopards livelyhood and meant possible MONGO fines it would.

So it's not at all possible that the tasers and bullhooks have stopped since 2003?  You guys aren't willing to give any props for at least making an effort to comply? 

Hmm...makes me wonder if doing the research myself was worth it.  I was hoping we could make headway on seeing in the middle.  Nevermind.

And if you saw my house at 9:00 pm, which is the kids' bedtime, you'd see that not all circuses are bad.

---

YA KNOW WHAT.....I'M OUT
GO TO THE CIRCUS THEN


-- Edited by Jan Albertson at 13:50, 2008-07-31

I'm happy to announce, I'm DONE with circus talk.  I've gave them every chance to show proof that these animals are mis treated and all I've got is that they don't get "pet-icures" (i liked that! ).  Well...neither do I dammit!      I'm just kidding.....


In otherwords, these animals would not get that treatment in the wild either and if you look up foot disease in elephants, even the wild get it.  Its not JUST circus animals.  Its a general problem.    

You have your opinion, I have mine.  (we all know which one is right..  hahah..i'm just kidding)  I"m just going to leave it at that :)  




Disclaimer:  I say this.....but i'm so damn opinionated that if someone says something something stupid....like....go the zoo instead......i'm likely to come back :)  hahaha

Never mind. I missed your post earlier on the standing in urine and stuff.  Sorry.  So if the elephant owners were to clean up their act much like they did with the gaffing and prodding, would you guys be more likely to attend the circus?

Steve Powell wrote:

---

Jan Albertson wrote:

---

 

Elephant feet and nail problems

The feet in general are the weakest point of the elephants, their "Akilleas heel", because when problems start, they have a tendency to continue, and they may in the end, if neglected, result in the elephants death.

There is a development in Zoos, to change the floor structure and substrate, which in the past was always concrete, in some cases with a top layer of asphalt. In fact, the elephants foot is developed for much softer materials, and the pressure from the body weight, combined with less training and excercise, as well as damp, cold stables, has produced a lot of pain and deaths of captive elephants.

Elephant expert Michael Schmidt, a former chief veterinarian at Oregon Zoo who specialized in the care of elephants for over 25 years, states in his book Jumbo Ghosts: The Dangerous Life of Elephants in the Zoo, "Despite all of our exhaustive efforts to keep the elephants alive in the zoo in Portland, we lost four adult elephants to preventable zoo-genic foot disease while I was there." Schmidt adds, "Zoo-genic foot disease remains the number one source of pain, suffering and premature death for zoo elephants."

Off-hand environment

In hands-on situation, footcare can and should be trained and performed on a regulair basis. In the case of bulls however, they were in the past kept in off-hand situation, which resulted in none or poor footcare, sometimes in combination with sudden hazardus operations under sedation. In some cases the overgrowth of the nails could cause severe pain and locomotion problems. Even by means of veterinairy care, such rare occasions of footcare may even lead to worse problems. Its therefore important to keep off-hand animals in an active protected contact training, and almost daily train footcare routines, in order to avoid complications. (Picture: bull elephant in Ukraine)

Feet and nail problems

Vertical pressure cracks may result in pain, and causing the elephant to put more body weight on another foot, which might later cause the major problems. Vertical cracks, if uncut, will in the end reach the base of the nail, ctreating greater problems, and will take a lot of time to correct. Sometimes years.

If theres vertical cracks they might be carefully rounded with a rasp, letting air inside and kept very clean from dirt. If theres holes with dirt, the hoof might have to be shortened in order to prevent more dirt being stucked. After applying skin softening and moistering cream such as Pana-Veyxal (Germany), Corona Cream (USA) or Salicylevaseline, (Try to avoid any cream containing animal fat, since fat is said to make the wall of the nails weak) for some days, the skin above the nail can be carefully trimmed down with a rasp. If theres very long skinparts hanging loose from the foot, they may be removed with a knife or a tang. This part of the skin will then need to be moistured with cream, and it may take upto a month before it is properly attached to the nail again. For some time, increase the hygiene of the foot an nail, spraying the foot or soaking it in a footbath for some minutes after shower in a light desinfection or Beta-Isodona. After this apply cream, especially in cracks and in the pocket between the base of the nail and the skin. Repeat before the nightmeal is presented.

Winters are in general a good period to concentrate on such problems, since the elephants are spending more time inside, and theres hopefully more time for the keepers to put attention on the feet.

It may here be stated the bad feet of elephants in a zoo doesnt have to be a result of neglection in care by the elephant keepers, it may also be the case that the Zoo is run by a director that put the general health of the elephants in a less priority, and the keepers may simply be to busy to clean areas of hippos and rhinos, that theres not time for the elephants care. Theres not much to do with this case of problems, animals and people has always suffered under stupid leaders in the past, and will probably do so in the future.

Sometimes the wall of the base of the nail changes in quality, it starts to get weak and soft nd looses its protective surface (1). This might then develop into a horizontal crack(2), and the upper lamell will loose its contact with the underlying lamell.If this occurs, this crack will also be filled with dirt and sand during the day, which causes the opening to grow. In most cases thers nothing more to do than opening this crack(3), removing the loose parts of the nail until you reach the part of the nail which is better attached. This problem needs intensive care with hygiene and nail cream, and simply has to grow away. It is recommended to take some sample of the tissue and send to a lab, in order to check if fungus is connected to the problem. especially if theres a connection to fungus, but also just in general, Theres a tendency that keepers is trying to correct those problems only with rasp and knifes, neglecting the fact that the foot has to be kept clean in order to stimulate healing. A daily footbath of Beta-Isodona or Iodine will approve the healing process, and I recomended to make such a foot bath daily, at least after bringing the elephants inside in the evening from the enclosure, but even better, also in the morning after the (hopefully??) daily shower.

Putting epoxy on the nails

Lately, more experiments has been made to keep deep or long vertical cracks from developing more, by means of Epoxy. Apearently a product called SBS Hoof Patch has had positive results. Mike C writes at EMA discussion board: "Basically after the crack is trimmed out you place two blobs of epoxy on either side of the crack, then connect with a patch strip cut to appx 1/2 inch wide followed by more epoxy to reinforce it. In this way you stabilize latteral pressure that may cause it to migrate higher up the nail and it also keeps the crack open so you can clean it if necessary. You can also put some epoxy above the crack on the unaffected part of the nail to help prevent a crack from continuing further, but it is most important to ensure that the lower nail is trimmed frequently to alleviate pressure"
Take a look at a page with pictures that describes the treatment and the website of Hoofpatch.

I now understand my sisters frusteration.

---

Jan, can you include an explanation as to how this particular cut and paste references the coming circus?

---

WOW!!! UMMMM....you questoned the severity foot problems can be.So I gave you facts. This is in reqards to the posting earlier of the violations Carson and Barns recieved by the USDA.

Jan Albertson wrote:

---

 

Elephant feet and nail problems

The feet in general are the weakest point of the elephants, their "Akilleas heel", because when problems start, they have a tendency to continue, and they may in the end, if neglected, result in the elephants death.

There is a development in Zoos, to change the floor structure and substrate, which in the past was always concrete, in some cases with a top layer of asphalt. In fact, the elephants foot is developed for much softer materials, and the pressure from the body weight, combined with less training and excercise, as well as damp, cold stables, has produced a lot of pain and deaths of captive elephants.

Elephant expert Michael Schmidt, a former chief veterinarian at Oregon Zoo who specialized in the care of elephants for over 25 years, states in his book Jumbo Ghosts: The Dangerous Life of Elephants in the Zoo, "Despite all of our exhaustive efforts to keep the elephants alive in the zoo in Portland, we lost four adult elephants to preventable zoo-genic foot disease while I was there." Schmidt adds, "Zoo-genic foot disease remains the number one source of pain, suffering and premature death for zoo elephants."

Off-hand environment

In hands-on situation, footcare can and should be trained and performed on a regulair basis. In the case of bulls however, they were in the past kept in off-hand situation, which resulted in none or poor footcare, sometimes in combination with sudden hazardus operations under sedation. In some cases the overgrowth of the nails could cause severe pain and locomotion problems. Even by means of veterinairy care, such rare occasions of footcare may even lead to worse problems. Its therefore important to keep off-hand animals in an active protected contact training, and almost daily train footcare routines, in order to avoid complications. (Picture: bull elephant in Ukraine)

Feet and nail problems

Vertical pressure cracks may result in pain, and causing the elephant to put more body weight on another foot, which might later cause the major problems. Vertical cracks, if uncut, will in the end reach the base of the nail, ctreating greater problems, and will take a lot of time to correct. Sometimes years.

If theres vertical cracks they might be carefully rounded with a rasp, letting air inside and kept very clean from dirt. If theres holes with dirt, the hoof might have to be shortened in order to prevent more dirt being stucked. After applying skin softening and moistering cream such as Pana-Veyxal (Germany), Corona Cream (USA) or Salicylevaseline, (Try to avoid any cream containing animal fat, since fat is said to make the wall of the nails weak) for some days, the skin above the nail can be carefully trimmed down with a rasp. If theres very long skinparts hanging loose from the foot, they may be removed with a knife or a tang. This part of the skin will then need to be moistured with cream, and it may take upto a month before it is properly attached to the nail again. For some time, increase the hygiene of the foot an nail, spraying the foot or soaking it in a footbath for some minutes after shower in a light desinfection or Beta-Isodona. After this apply cream, especially in cracks and in the pocket between the base of the nail and the skin. Repeat before the nightmeal is presented.

Winters are in general a good period to concentrate on such problems, since the elephants are spending more time inside, and theres hopefully more time for the keepers to put attention on the feet.

It may here be stated the bad feet of elephants in a zoo doesnt have to be a result of neglection in care by the elephant keepers, it may also be the case that the Zoo is run by a director that put the general health of the elephants in a less priority, and the keepers may simply be to busy to clean areas of hippos and rhinos, that theres not time for the elephants care. Theres not much to do with this case of problems, animals and people has always suffered under stupid leaders in the past, and will probably do so in the future.

Sometimes the wall of the base of the nail changes in quality, it starts to get weak and soft nd looses its protective surface (1). This might then develop into a horizontal crack(2), and the upper lamell will loose its contact with the underlying lamell.If this occurs, this crack will also be filled with dirt and sand during the day, which causes the opening to grow. In most cases thers nothing more to do than opening this crack(3), removing the loose parts of the nail until you reach the part of the nail which is better attached. This problem needs intensive care with hygiene and nail cream, and simply has to grow away. It is recommended to take some sample of the tissue and send to a lab, in order to check if fungus is connected to the problem. especially if theres a connection to fungus, but also just in general, Theres a tendency that keepers is trying to correct those problems only with rasp and knifes, neglecting the fact that the foot has to be kept clean in order to stimulate healing. A daily footbath of Beta-Isodona or Iodine will approve the healing process, and I recomended to make such a foot bath daily, at least after bringing the elephants inside in the evening from the enclosure, but even better, also in the morning after the (hopefully??) daily shower.

Putting epoxy on the nails

Lately, more experiments has been made to keep deep or long vertical cracks from developing more, by means of Epoxy. Apearently a product called SBS Hoof Patch has had positive results. Mike C writes at EMA discussion board: "Basically after the crack is trimmed out you place two blobs of epoxy on either side of the crack, then connect with a patch strip cut to appx 1/2 inch wide followed by more epoxy to reinforce it. In this way you stabilize latteral pressure that may cause it to migrate higher up the nail and it also keeps the crack open so you can clean it if necessary. You can also put some epoxy above the crack on the unaffected part of the nail to help prevent a crack from continuing further, but it is most important to ensure that the lower nail is trimmed frequently to alleviate pressure"
Take a look at a page with pictures that describes the treatment and the website of Hoofpatch.

I now understand my sisters frusteration.

---

Jan, can you include an explanation as to how this particular cut and paste references the coming circus?

 

Elephant feet and nail problems

The feet in general are the weakest point of the elephants, their "Akilleas heel", because when problems start, they have a tendency to continue, and they may in the end, if neglected, result in the elephants death.

There is a development in Zoos, to change the floor structure and substrate, which in the past was always concrete, in some cases with a top layer of asphalt. In fact, the elephants foot is developed for much softer materials, and the pressure from the body weight, combined with less training and excercise, as well as damp, cold stables, has produced a lot of pain and deaths of captive elephants.

Elephant expert Michael Schmidt, a former chief veterinarian at Oregon Zoo who specialized in the care of elephants for over 25 years, states in his book Jumbo Ghosts: The Dangerous Life of Elephants in the Zoo, "Despite all of our exhaustive efforts to keep the elephants alive in the zoo in Portland, we lost four adult elephants to preventable zoo-genic foot disease while I was there." Schmidt adds, "Zoo-genic foot disease remains the number one source of pain, suffering and premature death for zoo elephants."

Off-hand environment

In hands-on situation, footcare can and should be trained and performed on a regulair basis. In the case of bulls however, they were in the past kept in off-hand situation, which resulted in none or poor footcare, sometimes in combination with sudden hazardus operations under sedation. In some cases the overgrowth of the nails could cause severe pain and locomotion problems. Even by means of veterinairy care, such rare occasions of footcare may even lead to worse problems. Its therefore important to keep off-hand animals in an active protected contact training, and almost daily train footcare routines, in order to avoid complications. (Picture: bull elephant in Ukraine)

Feet and nail problems

Vertical pressure cracks may result in pain, and causing the elephant to put more body weight on another foot, which might later cause the major problems. Vertical cracks, if uncut, will in the end reach the base of the nail, ctreating greater problems, and will take a lot of time to correct. Sometimes years.

If theres vertical cracks they might be carefully rounded with a rasp, letting air inside and kept very clean from dirt. If theres holes with dirt, the hoof might have to be shortened in order to prevent more dirt being stucked. After applying skin softening and moistering cream such as Pana-Veyxal (Germany), Corona Cream (USA) or Salicylevaseline, (Try to avoid any cream containing animal fat, since fat is said to make the wall of the nails weak) for some days, the skin above the nail can be carefully trimmed down with a rasp. If theres very long skinparts hanging loose from the foot, they may be removed with a knife or a tang. This part of the skin will then need to be moistured with cream, and it may take upto a month before it is properly attached to the nail again. For some time, increase the hygiene of the foot an nail, spraying the foot or soaking it in a footbath for some minutes after shower in a light desinfection or Beta-Isodona. After this apply cream, especially in cracks and in the pocket between the base of the nail and the skin. Repeat before the nightmeal is presented.

Winters are in general a good period to concentrate on such problems, since the elephants are spending more time inside, and theres hopefully more time for the keepers to put attention on the feet.

It may here be stated the bad feet of elephants in a zoo doesnt have to be a result of neglection in care by the elephant keepers, it may also be the case that the Zoo is run by a director that put the general health of the elephants in a less priority, and the keepers may simply be to busy to clean areas of hippos and rhinos, that theres not time for the elephants care. Theres not much to do with this case of problems, animals and people has always suffered under stupid leaders in the past, and will probably do so in the future.

Sometimes the wall of the base of the nail changes in quality, it starts to get weak and soft nd looses its protective surface (1). This might then develop into a horizontal crack(2), and the upper lamell will loose its contact with the underlying lamell.If this occurs, this crack will also be filled with dirt and sand during the day, which causes the opening to grow. In most cases thers nothing more to do than opening this crack(3), removing the loose parts of the nail until you reach the part of the nail which is better attached. This problem needs intensive care with hygiene and nail cream, and simply has to grow away. It is recommended to take some sample of the tissue and send to a lab, in order to check if fungus is connected to the problem. especially if theres a connection to fungus, but also just in general, Theres a tendency that keepers is trying to correct those problems only with rasp and knifes, neglecting the fact that the foot has to be kept clean in order to stimulate healing. A daily footbath of Beta-Isodona or Iodine will approve the healing process, and I recomended to make such a foot bath daily, at least after bringing the elephants inside in the evening from the enclosure, but even better, also in the morning after the (hopefully??) daily shower.

Putting epoxy on the nails

Lately, more experiments has been made to keep deep or long vertical cracks from developing more, by means of Epoxy. Apearently a product called SBS Hoof Patch has had positive results. Mike C writes at EMA discussion board: "Basically after the crack is trimmed out you place two blobs of epoxy on either side of the crack, then connect with a patch strip cut to appx 1/2 inch wide followed by more epoxy to reinforce it. In this way you stabilize latteral pressure that may cause it to migrate higher up the nail and it also keeps the crack open so you can clean it if necessary. You can also put some epoxy above the crack on the unaffected part of the nail to help prevent a crack from continuing further, but it is most important to ensure that the lower nail is trimmed frequently to alleviate pressure"
Take a look at a page with pictures that describes the treatment and the website of Hoofpatch.

I now understand my sisters frusteration.

SKM wrote:

---

Oh Jyl, I see your compassion but if you dont think these elephants dont get hurt on thier own is a tad goofy. They are wild of course they are going to get split nails. You my friend, need to explain why you are soo angry with the way the elephants and other exotic animals are treated. Im sure you are well aware of the fact that Elephants are hunted in Africa. For nothing less than the Ivory, and that is our fault? You talk as if we in North Dakota are stupid and ignorant, when in fact, we are smart, hardworking and loyal.

---

Ya might need to go back and read the past comments! I was answering a question! ?? What does ivory have to do with circus elephants? And yes, I am not to thrilled about that either, but still not sure how that relates to caging animals and forcing them to perform stupid pet tricks for "entertainment".   ?????    I don't believe I ever implied that people from ND are African poachers. 

 

Steve Powell wrote:

---

Jyl, if you gals take it to another arena, I wanna be the first to buy tickets. Unless you're calling me out...in which case...well...that wouldn't work...cuz I'm still the old school "hold the door open for a lady" type and I could never lay a hand on a woman with harmful intent...unless she had a mustache...then I might be able to.

I'm glad you feel you need to speak out. This board would be nothing without people like you. Thank you.

Jan, thanks for that information. Is there any other sight other than circuses.com with information like this? I'd like to see a resource other than PETA. I find the following a little funny....

June 6, 2007: The USDA cited Carson & Barnes for failure to provide adequate veterinary care to three

elephants. Becky had two cracked nails on each hind foot and a cracked nail on a front foot. Traci’s nails were

unevenly trimmed, causing her to bear her weight unevenly. Lisa had a cracked nail on two feet. All the

elephants had rough cuticles, and a 1_-inch piece of fence wire was found in the hind foot of one of the

elephants. The elephants had not had foot care since February 2007.

Who does their nails when they are out in the wilderness? Crikey...if they do get nails done and stuff like that...make me circus animal...uhh...just sayin'.

 

---

It's like horses and horseshoes. No one clipped their nails or put shoes on them in the wild. Even comparing my own two dogs: the huge German Shepherd that runs around all day outside, has never needed his nails clipped. Our spoiled weiner dog however needs his nails manicured at least once every two weeks. LOL Not quite the same, but whatever. From what I have read, it sounds like that is one of the major problems regarding circus elephants. Being transported in the back of a truck for weeks on end, with little excersice and standing in their own urine probably has a lot to do with the foot problems. The urine is high in ammonia and kind of rots their feet and leads to serious health problems if not taken care of. Wild elephants nails would be worn down naturally by walking 100's of miles in a given week. I'm not a vet, but that is my take on it. As far as info other than PETA, I dont really like getting ALL my info from that source either because it tends to be a tad one sided, however, they generally copy thir violations right from the USDA APHIS regulations. APHIS isn't updated as regulary as one might hope, but you can request it by faxing them. But of course that would take awhile. The other problem is, that it is impossible to find out who all of the animal exhibitors are. Just try calling the circus itself....tried, they won't tell you. Each individual animal exhibitor can have violations. It wont all fall under the circus name necessarily. They could possibly have no exibitors license and lease their animals from other sources. Another problem is that circuses like to change their names frequently. Example: Cole brothers, then Cole's and Sons....etc. New owner= new name= new license= hard to track past violations. By the time you find out a circus is coming and fight to get the information (if  you can even get it), it has come and gone. Interesting tid bit. The guy from the video I posted of the man in the barn swearing and beating the elephants. HE was the elephant trainer that was at the Fargo circus a few months ago. The video might have been from 83, but he is still out there in the present.

 

-- Edited by Jyl Mieling Albertson at 00:24, 2008-07-31

Steve Powell wrote:

---

And on that note...I think the "back and forth" should probably be done in a different arena. If you guys want to put articles that lead to facts regarding the animals and the circus to prove points, excellent. But I feel the personal attacks need to stop for the integrity of the board. If it carries on the thread WILL go away.

Jyl, you say you have factual information from 2007? I'd love to see it. Please post that information here.

Thank you.

-- Edited by Steve Powell at 10:43, 2008-07-30

---

Not saying ANYTHING is NOT my forte! But I will from now on respectfully decline to comment. I know what really happened and that IS all that should matter. Funny how some people can make an innocent protest go off on a tangent to distract from the REAL issue. Fact: circus animals ARE mistreated.
Fact: these animals do pose a danger to the public.
Thank You

 PS If in "different arena" you are suggesting a cage match...I'm there!

-- Edited by Jyl Mieling Albertson at 18:26, 2008-07-30

Thank you Jan, this is the information weve all been wanting to see!  I have a new perspective on this whole subject now! Thanks again!

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals • 501 Front St., Norfolk, VA

23510

757-622-7382 • PETA.org • Circuses.com

Carson & Barnes Circus Factsheet – Page 1 of 5 – Updated February 26, 2008

Carson & Barnes Circus

USDA License #73-C-0001, Box J, Hugo, OK 74743

Carson & Barnes Circus has failed to meet minimal federal standards for the care of animals used in

exhibition as established in the Animal Welfare Act (AWA). The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) has

cited Carson & Barnes Circus numerous times for failure to provide veterinary care and minimum space, for

failure to provide shelter from the elements, for failure to maintain transport trailers, for inadequate

ventilation, for unsound fencing that failed to protect spectators and the animals, for rusty animal cages, for

giving animals unclean water, and for failure to keep animal care records. The Carson & Barnes Circus

animal care director was videotaped viciously attacking elephants with a bullhook, shocking elephants with

an electric prod, and instructing trainers to embed sharp, metal hooks into the elephants’ flesh until the

elephants scream in pain. Contact PETA for documentation.

August 30, 2007: The USDA cited Carson & Barnes for failure to correct a previously identified violation for not

having valid TB test results for elephants. The inspector wrote, “On both ‘Bunny’ and ‘Minnie,’ two of the three

trunk wash samples … were found to be contaminated. Because of the contamination, proper testing could not

be performed.” Carson & Barnes was also cited for failure to handle animals so that there is minimal risk of harm

to the animals and the public. The elephants were left unattended, and there was a gap in the safety barrier. The

inspector wrote, “[I]t would have been very possible for a member of the public to enter the area and endanger

both him or her/self and/or the animals.”

June 6, 2007: The USDA cited Carson & Barnes for failure to provide adequate veterinary care to three

elephants. Becky had two cracked nails on each hind foot and a cracked nail on a front foot. Traci’s nails were

unevenly trimmed, causing her to bear her weight unevenly. Lisa had a cracked nail on two feet. All the

elephants had rough cuticles, and a 1_-inch piece of fence wire was found in the hind foot of one of the

elephants. The elephants had not had foot care since February 2007.

June 5, 2007: The USDA cited Carson & Barnes for failure to have valid TB test results for three elephants. The

inspector wrote, “Two of the three culture samples required for Isla and Opal were contaminated and one of the

three cultures for each elephant was negative. All three required culture samples for Isa were contaminated.

These are not adequate to diagnose potential disease in these animals.”

October 2, 2006: The USDA cited Carson & Barnes for failure to properly construct and maintain enclosures to

safely contain animals. A portable enclosure for three small dogs had large spaces between the bars and was of

insufficient height to adequately contain the dogs. One dog escaped during the inspection.

June 16, 2006: The USDA cited Carson & Barnes for failure to provide adequate veterinary care to elephants

named Beckie and Tracie with multiple cracked nails on their hind feet. Neither elephant had had foot care since

March 2006. According to The Elephant’s Foot, foot-related conditions and arthritis are the leading causes of

euthanasia in captive elephants in the United States. Cracked nails can lead to foot disorders that may result in

serious disability or death.

Thanks Jan.  I appreciate your comments as I would do the same for my brother.  I agree with your sentiments about the mud slinging.  Hopefully neither of you take my last post as such.  I, like you, did the research and was enlightened.  However, I have only found evidence up to 2003.  Jyl mentioned there was something out there from 2007 and I'm curious to see what it was. 
Thanks again, Jan.

Jyl Mieling Albertson wrote:

---

Steve Powell wrote:

---

But you're talking about 1 person that did this. Not "Williston".

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Maybe I am talking through personal experience (unfortunately that is all I have). It is not only the circus issue, I have lived here for 5 years and can't grasp (nor want to) the narrow minded thinking I have encountered here regarding other issuse such as racism...etc. I have never heard so many racist and homphobic comments/ "jokes" anywhere. Do people really think that it's Ok? Then I'm the b!@*H for saying something and defending those that are not there to defend themselves. It is not the North Dakota I remember growing up in. Maybe I was just naive back then. It just makes me sad.

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This really isn't for this thread, but I'll byte...get it? byte? I'm a geek...byte?  NEVERMIND....<tough crowd>.

So...are white heterosexuals the only people telling jokes about other races and sexual preferences?  When is the last time you defended a white person when a black person used the word "cracker"?  You do realize that there is a major, MAJOR double standard in our country where a white person can get sued and dismissed from their job BIG TIME for saying certain "slang" terms for people of other race, but when they do it it's ok because they've been "persecutied" for many years and they deserve to be able to do it. 

I'm not saying it's right on either side, In fact I really wish everyone could just get past the whole race thing (won't happen as long as people like Jessie Jackson and Imus are around).  I'm just saying it appears you're quick to judge how people are around here but make no mention as to what THEY do out there.  Sounds as "close minded" as you say we are.

Now, bring this topic to another thread or restart the circus music. 


-- Edited by Steve Powell at 12:13, 2008-07-30

First of all Jyl, I NEVER called social service.  I don't even know where you got that.  I called the police. And actually didn't even end of talking to them because they directed me to the cop that was across the street.   It had nothing to do with the protest, but everything to do with the fact that I had to brake for your kid (i've said it before, if i remember right, it was just one) that was running into the street during the protest.  So where exactly you are getting the social service thing from, I have no idea.


Where do I get that the circus is entertaining???  Other than the fact that kids LOVED it and asks about it all the time?  What more do you want than that?    How about the rest of WILLISTON that attended?  I promise you there are more people on my side than there is on yours.  Your kids would love it too.




There are racism jokes everywhere.  Comming from everyone.  The only thing I really enjoy about the oil boom right now is that it has brought a lot of differant people here.  Of many races.  And its not just "north dakota" people that are telling the "racist jokes/ comments".  Its called a sense of humor.  I don't believe you have one of those but they are very entertaining. 



I see nothing wrong with the quality of myself either .  If you do have a problem with my personal quality, I suggest you take it up with me personally.  Not only that, but speaking of "racism comments/jokes".  Most people that work at the circus are not as bad as you think.  If you don't attend them, don't talk bad about the people in them.  Thats exatly the "poor quality" of everyone else you just bashed in williston.  I've never seen such a hypocrit in my life...until I met you.

Mommyof2 wrote:

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AAhh, Jyl DID decide to voice her opinion. I didn't think you could stay away. For once I will agree with you on ONE little thing. Carnes and Noble is said to be worse than the last circus. However, it is all in the past. Most the things you mentioned are in the past. Can you come up with currant proof? Something in the last 2 or 3 years?


Unfortunatly I won't be able to attend this circus :( . I almost wish I could JUST so I could say that I went. My kids would LOVE to see the abused and tortured animals.

 

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I really have nothing to say to you. Education is a funny thing, you can actually take the inituative and educate YOURSELF, if that's your true intention. (I would consider 2007 pretty recent for violations, but that's just my opinion) It is to bad you can't attend, you would fit in quite nicely with the quality of people that work at the circus. Social Services called,  they said  "Hi"!

 

Steve Powell wrote:

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"Educating people around here is like talking to a rock!"

Jyl, you have to expect harsh responses when you put this kind of stuff on the message board. Number one, this is a generalization of the people of Williston. I have a hard time believing you truly believe this. B..if people don't agree with your point of view, tossing out slams like this isn't going to make them all warm and fuzzy and want to open up to your views. Be patient with people regardless of whether you want to teach them something or they you. I know it's not easy because people can tend to be very negative and harsh in their approach. But cooler heads will prevail and perhaps your message will get through.

Besides that, I would think the ones that lie and ridicule would be the ones you'd want to break through to the most. Afterall, they're the ones that do the most to work against what you are trying to do. No?

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I'm pretty sure that trying to convince a person that has not only lied about you, but then goes so far as to go to social services with false claims are not very open to an intelligent debate on this subject. Considering the fact that she is a member of this forum, probably does lead me to be more defensive. Instead of bashing someone that does care about the well being of another creature, I would like someone to give me 10 reasons why they feel the circus is a valuable form of entertainment. (Charity isn't really one of them either since you can give money without attending.) I am anxiously awaiting some replies!
 

 

"Educating people around here is like talking to a rock!" 

Jyl, you have to expect harsh responses when you put this kind of stuff on the message board.  Number one, this is a generalization of the people of Williston.  I have a hard time believing you truly believe this.  B..if people don't agree with your point of view, tossing out slams like this isn't going to make them all warm and fuzzy and want to open up to your views.  Be patient with people regardless of whether you want to teach them something or they you.  I know it's not easy because people can tend to be very negative and harsh in their approach.  But cooler heads will prevail and perhaps your message will get through.

Besides that, I would think the ones that lie and ridicule would be the ones you'd want to break through to the most.  Afterall, they're the ones that do the most to work against what you are trying to do.  No?