Williston, ND Active Issues

SKM · Senior Member

RE: Circus protestors

SKM · Senior Member

-- Edited by SKM at 03:59, 2008-09-02

Steve Powell · Guru

Jimmylikesvikes wrote:

Speaking of animal abuse:

Better not take a dog on the space shuttle, because if he sticks his head out when you’re coming home his face might burn up.

by Jack Handy.

LOL!!! Too funny!! That's my bro for ya. biggrin

Jimmylikesvikes · Veteran Member

Speaking of animal abuse:

Better not take a dog on the space shuttle, because if he sticks his head out when you’re coming home his face might burn up.

by Jack Handy.

Mommyof2 · Senior Member

Actually, Looking back to my wonderful honeymoon (which was completly AWESOME!!) , this conversation never even popped in my head when we went to the zoo or to see the white tigers (which were really cool too).

What are you feeling on keeping dolphins "locked up"? Because they were gorgeous!! Just curious.

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

Mommyof2 wrote:

Jyl Mieling Albertson wrote:

For those of you actually seeking information regarding animal cruelty in the circus, I will be answer any questions you have (since this is the topic of the forum). For those of you who whish to throw out ridiculous acusations, I am choosing not to respond. I have better things to do with my time than deal with small town drama from small minded people. Open your eyes and educate yourself on something more important. thank you

Actually, Jyl, I would LOVE to sit and debate this with you all day long. Unfortunatly, I'm headed to vegas in about 3 hours, so i just can't. But I'll be sure to think about you when I head to a zoo that I'm going too. Because zoo's are ok :) Exotic animals....behind fences.....usually mistreated.....never LOOK happy.........but ok. I'll never figure that one out.

If you are thinking about me on your honeymoon, you have bigger problems than I thought!

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

Expositor wrote:

SKM wrote:

Expo, I think you mean communicate other than "speak". I know if my dog needs "to go outside", water or whatever, because he has different actions for each thing he wants. He's never came to me and said, "yo, I gotta take a leak". And if he ever did I probly die of shock so it wouldn't matter anyway. LOL

sorry the font is so big. I screwed up somewhere....yet again....

-- Edited by SKM at 00:54, 2008-04-23

Right, you are. Dogs, as well as other animals, are capable of communication simply through eye contact. Additional information is available by observing body language, and this should also be considered to be communication, but it is still "speaking" in the same sense that we would say Steven Hawking was "speaking". By conveying a thought from one entity to another, communication is achieved. Consider how difficult this will be when contact is eventually made with another civilization.

If this is what you truley believe, you should be behind me on this issue! When you see a lion slinking around in the circus ring, being whipped and snarrling at the trainer, being forced to jump through hoops, does it "look" happy to you?

Expositor · Veteran Member

SKM wrote:

Expo, I think you mean communicate other than "speak". I know if my dog needs "to go outside", water or whatever, because he has different actions for each thing he wants. He's never came to me and said, "yo, I gotta take a leak". And if he ever did I probly die of shock so it wouldn't matter anyway. LOL

sorry the font is so big. I screwed up somewhere....yet again....

-- Edited by SKM at 00:54, 2008-04-23

Right, you are. Dogs, as well as other animals, are capable of communication simply through eye contact. Additional information is available by observing body language, and this should also be considered to be communication, but it is still "speaking" in the same sense that we would say Steven Hawking was "speaking". By conveying a thought from one entity to another, communication is achieved. Consider how difficult this will be when contact is eventually made with another civilization.

Expositor · Veteran Member

Jyl, I guess I misread where you wrote "I think you should come with me and ask a circus animal" and was wondering where and when. Please have a enjoyable stay in Arizona.

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

Expositor wrote:

Jyl, go with you to speak with a circus animal where? Phoenix? Isn't that where you were going this weekend?

I didn't realize we had set a date. Did I miss something?? And yes, I wil be enjoying GREAT Authentic Mexican food in the wonderful state of Arizona.

Expositor · Veteran Member

Jyl, go with you to speak with a circus animal where? Phoenix? Isn't that where you were going this weekend?

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

Expositor wrote:

If you think animals can't speak, perhaps you haven't spent enough time with them. I have had plenty of conversations with horses, cows, dogs and cats. You must first listen, then think about what they might be trying to tell you. You might be surprised how many people react like "animals" when presented with this concept. This philosophy has been supported by Monty Roberts, the original "Horse Whisperer".

Why do you think I am so passionate about this topic! In your last entry you seem to be pro circus. In this entry you seem to have an appreciation and understanding of animals. ?? I think you should come with me and ask a circus animal, then we can really get to the bottom of this debate.

SKM · Senior Member

-- Edited by SKM at 00:54, 2008-04-23

-- Edited by SKM at 04:01, 2008-09-02

Expositor · Veteran Member

If you think animals can't speak, perhaps you haven't spent enough time with them. I have had plenty of conversations with horses, cows, dogs and cats. You must first listen, then think about what they might be trying to tell you. You might be surprised how many people react like "animals" when presented with this concept. This philosophy has been supported by Monty Roberts, the original "Horse Whisperer".

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

Expositor wrote:

An "Animal-Free Circus"? How can such a thing be? Without animals, how can it be a circus? Sure, there are plenty of tricks that human specimans are capable of performing, but doesn't that boil down to an acrobatic exhibition? And aren't humans also considered to be, biologically, animals? How much do those performers really enjoy their work? The old side-shows used to feature so-called "freaks" as attractions for the money-paying public. When someone wanted to see that ended, the biggest opposition was from the so-called "freaks" themselves. Their logic was that they were making a good living, so just leave them alone. How could anyone know that circus animals don't share a similiar sentiment?

You have got to be kidding me! If you don't see the flaw in your thinking, I can't help you. One tiny difference humans can speak and are there on their own free will. I'm pretty sure they can quit if they don't like their job. Has anyone given this option to a lion? Open the cage door and see if they stay.
I am rarely speechless..........

Expositor · Veteran Member

An "Animal-Free Circus"? How can such a thing be? Without animals, how can it be a circus? Sure, there are plenty of tricks that human specimans are capable of performing, but doesn't that boil down to an acrobatic exhibition? And aren't humans also considered to be, biologically, animals? How much do those performers really enjoy their work? The old side-shows used to feature so-called "freaks" as attractions for the money-paying public. When someone wanted to see that ended, the biggest opposition was from the so-called "freaks" themselves. Their logic was that they were making a good living, so just leave them alone. How could anyone know that circus animals don't share a similiar sentiment?

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

SKM wrote:

Jyl, I seen that the Circus is going to be in Minot this weekend (I think) and I was just wondering if your planning on making a little trip down there to protest? I see the Shriners are putting it on but I don't know if it's the same "circus". I'm just wondering.

I'm not sure if it is the same circus. My husband and I are heading to Phoenix this weekend for a little get-a-way. I think I have done all I can do. My hope is that people will educate themselves and make the right choice in years to come. Maybe next year the Shriners will take my advice and book an animal free circus. I sent a packet of information to a few of the local members including 3 pages of animal free acts for their fund raiser. If people voice their opinions, maybe they wil do the right thing and have a show everyone will be proud to give money to.

SKM · Senior Member

Jyl, I seen that the Circus is going to be in Minot this weekend (I think) and I was just wondering if your planning on making a little trip down there to protest? I see the Shriners are putting it on but I don't know if it's the same "circus". I'm just wondering. smile

Jibslider · Senior Member

Mommyof2 wrote:

Actually, Jyl, I would LOVE to sit and debate this with you all day long. Unfortunatly, I'm headed to vegas in about 3 hours, so i just can't. But I'll be sure to think about you when I head to a zoo that I'm going too. Because zoo's are ok :) Exotic animals....behind fences.....usually mistreated.....never LOOK happy.........but ok. I'll never figure that one out.

Obviously we would all rather see and visit the animals in thier respected habitats in the wild, but most modern zoos are full of either animals that were born in captivity or were rescued animals. Zoos are built as facilities where ongoing scientific/psychologic research and an immense amount of educational programs can be found on a daily basis.

Zoo animals are there not by choice just like circus animals, but atleast in the zoo, animals are not trained to do "stupid human tricks". You will never find me giving money to a circus, but I am an avid supporter and member of my local zoo (The Oregon Zoo).

-- Edited by Jibslider at 11:00, 2008-04-22

Mommyof2 · Senior Member

Jyl Mieling Albertson wrote:

For those of you actually seeking information regarding animal cruelty in the circus, I will be answer any questions you have (since this is the topic of the forum). For those of you who whish to throw out ridiculous acusations, I am choosing not to respond. I have better things to do with my time than deal with small town drama from small minded people. Open your eyes and educate yourself on something more important. thank you

Actually, Jyl, I would LOVE to sit and debate this with you all day long. Unfortunatly, I'm headed to vegas in about 3 hours, so i just can't. But I'll be sure to think about you when I head to a zoo that I'm going too. Because zoo's are ok :) Exotic animals....behind fences.....usually mistreated.....never LOOK happy.........but ok. I'll never figure that one out.

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

For those of you actually seeking information regarding animal cruelty in the circus, I will be answer any questions you have (since this is the topic of the forum). For those of you who whish to throw out ridiculous acusations, I am choosing not to respond. I have better things to do with my time than deal with small town drama from small minded people. Open your eyes and educate yourself on something more important. thank you

Mommyof2 · Senior Member

Jyl Mieling Albertson wrote:

Mommyof2 wrote:

Jyl, my dear, we have to agree to disagree here. I'm all up for protesting something, freedom of speech to all. I am the daughter of the lady you talked to and I was also the driver. YES. I DID break when the kid (there was just one) was running into the street. Whether or not this was an isolated event during the protest, I don't know. I'm a VERY careful driver. I've had two speeding tickets and zero accidents in my life. You can defend your little protest all you want, but don't lie. THATS where I draw the line!!! And I'm sorry, but three adult and 7 kids is NOT enough when your standing 2 (yes....2...not 5) feet from a curb of the busiest street in Williston!!! You sound like a smart person, use a little common sense here.

What your saying now is a far cry from what you posted on the Herald guest book and reported to social services.You said "kids were running wild in the street with protest signs."So who is the one who is lying? Preventing a child from getting too close to the street is one thing. Many children running wild in the street is totally different. Hopefully this is the final version of your "story." A 7 to 3 ratio when 2 children are strapped into a double stroller is not illogical to me. I have friends who have 5 kids of there own. So your saying she has no "common sense" if she chooses to walk her children on the sidewalk?We both know what really happened so I'm not discussing this paticular issue with you any longer.

If any of you read her post in the Herald guest book you can attest to the fact her stories are vastly different.

-- Edited by Jyl Mieling Albertson at 10:10, 2008-04-18

My stories are not "vastly differant". In the guestbook, I said they were running into the streets. And this time, I said "whether or not this is an isolated event, I don't know". When I personally drove by, they were. And there was two of them! One was in the street, the other on the edge of the street. Just one though I saw actually in the street. He DID step foot into the street and one of you pulled them back. WALKING down the street is differant than standing there purposely putting them kids into danger while you protest something with them that they know nothing about!!! I could argue this all day and have alot more points I might post later, but being I'm decorating for my reception tomorrow, I just don't have the time.

-- Edited by Mommyof2 at 20:56, 2008-04-18

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

Mommyof2 wrote:

Jyl, my dear, we have to agree to disagree here. I'm all up for protesting something, freedom of speech to all. I am the daughter of the lady you talked to and I was also the driver. YES. I DID break when the kid (there was just one) was running into the street. Whether or not this was an isolated event during the protest, I don't know. I'm a VERY careful driver. I've had two speeding tickets and zero accidents in my life. You can defend your little protest all you want, but don't lie. THATS where I draw the line!!! And I'm sorry, but three adult and 7 kids is NOT enough when your standing 2 (yes....2...not 5) feet from a curb of the busiest street in Williston!!! You sound like a smart person, use a little common sense here.

What your saying now is a far cry from what you posted on the Herald guest book and reported to social services.You said "kids were running wild in the street with protest signs."So who is the one who is lying? Preventing a child from getting too close to the street is one thing. Many children running wild in the street is totally different. Hopefully this is the final version of your "story." A 7 to 3 ratio when 2 children are strapped into a double stroller is not illogical to me. I have friends who have 5 kids of there own. So your saying she has no "common sense" if she chooses to walk her children on the sidewalk?We both know what really happened so I'm not discussing this paticular issue with you any longer. furious

If any of you read her post in the Herald guest book you can attest to the fact her stories are vastly different.

-- Edited by Jyl Mieling Albertson at 10:10, 2008-04-18

Mommyof2 · Senior Member

Jyl, my dear, we have to agree to disagree here. I'm all up for protesting something, freedom of speech to all. I am the daughter of the lady you talked to and I was also the driver. YES. I DID break when the kid (there was just one) was running into the street. Whether or not this was an isolated event during the protest, I don't know. I'm a VERY careful driver. I've had two speeding tickets and zero accidents in my life. You can defend your little protest all you want, but don't lie. THATS where I draw the line!!! And I'm sorry, but three adult and 7 kids is NOT enough when your standing 2 (yes....2...not 5) feet from a curb of the busiest street in Williston!!! You sound like a smart person, use a little common sense here.

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

Steve Powell wrote:

I can't help but laughing when seeing the ***'s. Blocking that word from Peac.o.c.k only draws attention to the word itself and makes us think of why it may be blocked.

Now I can understand why they would block the word Green Bay ******s.

This is too off-topic so we'd better get pushing back in the right direction.

Just thought it was funny.

-- Edited by Steve Powell at 07:00, 2008-04-18

LOL! So asking someone out for c@cktails could be considered innappropriate? LOL!

Steve Powell · Guru

I can't help but laughing when seeing the ***'s. Blocking that word from Peac.o.c.k only draws attention to the word itself and makes us think of why it may be blocked.

Now I can understand why they would block the word Green Bay ******s.

This is too off-topic so we'd better get pushing back in the right direction.

Just thought it was funny.

-- Edited by Steve Powell at 07:00, 2008-04-18

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

SKM wrote:

now I think this is exotic.... An albino Pea****...isnt he beautiful.

That is really beautiful. Thanks for sharing!
I think these are exotic

SKM · Senior Member

Expo....geeze... I can't believe that Larry is writing into the Bismarck Tribune also. No wonder he doesn't come to this site. He's too busy writing to the papers. smile

-- Edited by SKM at 14:44, 2008-04-18

ranramsey · Veteran Member

too funny...thank goodness someone is protection from foul language, **** **** **** too funny. Where's Howard Stern when we need him!

-- Edited by ranramsey at 01:20, 2008-04-18

-- Edited by ranramsey at 01:21, 2008-04-18

SKM · Senior Member

Yes Randy it did...but everyone got the gist. So no harm no foul. smile

Expositor · Veteran Member

I found it amusing that on the Bismarck Tribune site just a few days ago, a Mr. Larsen was commenting on signs of spring, among which was mentioned, the appearance of an early plant blossom called the p****willow. That is exactly how it appeared on their website. Does this indicate that in the near future, all feline references will be handled with kid gloves, if not shunned entirely?

ranramsey · Veteran Member

SKM wrote:

now I think this is exotic.... An albino Pea****...isnt he beautiful.

Did the "board" edit that, or can't you say Pea**** on this board?

-- Edited by ranramsey at 00:03, 2008-04-18

-- Edited by ranramsey at 00:03, 2008-04-18

-- Edited by ranramsey at 00:09, 2008-04-18

SKM · Senior Member

-- Edited by SKM at 01:43, 2008-09-03

SKM · Senior Member

-- Edited by SKM at 04:01, 2008-09-02

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

Sorry, I just get very passionate about things! LOL I was laughing about the comments left on the guest book on the herald. what does immigration reform and crack babies have to do with animal rights? Also, the comment about me having dogs?? WTF?? I live on 4 acres, no fence and a 14x26 ft heated mudroom (dog house), with an unlimited supply of food and water. My domestic animals could leave at anytime if they so wished. LOL For the record, just because I am passionate about this issue, doesn't mean I don't care about anything else. I tried to respond, but they deleted ALL of the comments. Like lambs to the slaughter, heaven forbid someone has a different opinion around here.

-- Edited by Jyl Mieling Albertson at 21:58, 2008-04-17

Steve Powell · Guru

Were those elephants kissing? Yuch!!! biggrin

Kidding...of course.

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

-- Edited by Jyl Mieling Albertson at 20:27, 2008-04-17

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

The Hawthorn Corp got all of their elephants seized and put in a sactuary (elephants.com) for maltreatment and abuse, but they still have other animals. I called them, to see if they have leased any to Jordan World, but the kid that answered the phone got beligerant and hung up on me. I also called Jordan world and asked who they lease their animals thru, he said "There might be someone here next week sometime that could possibly answer that question" We called 5 times, same response. I then spoke to a local Shriner member and was told "I don't feel the need to give you any information. You Miss are uneducated and misguided." So, that was basically the end of that conversation. I also left a message for the Shriner that coordinates the circus, he never called me back. I also spoke to the USDA and the executive vice president of the Shriners in Tampa (Mike Andrews). He is the one who gave me permission to put the shriners web address on all of our fliers so people could donate directly instead of filtering it through the circus. He was SUPER nice and he was the one who told me to contact the local members for the info. He was surprised to hear they were unwilling to give me the information I was seeking. Like you, ALL I wanted was information.

Steve Powell · Guru

I would like to echo the same sentiments as Shayla. Welcome to our board. We've had some very interesting conversations here. People so far have been very good about keeping these debates civil. Everyone appears to respect others opinions (so far) so please feel free to express yours in any of the threads you would like.

I have asked alot of questions both on the guestbook as well as here. I've done the research from the websites posted here. I see the information on the elephants but I'm not seeing information on the other "exotic" animals. Personally, there's nothing "exotic" about an elephant, but that's my opinion. wink

Can you provide more info on any more abuse of the other animals by this particular circus? Isn't there something else that can be done to keep the circus going without these kinds of shows?

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

Thank you for the Welcome! I am always up for an intelligant debate.

SKM · Senior Member

Hi Jyl, welcome aboard. smile

I hope you like this site as much as we all do. If it's open discussions you want, you've come to the right place. smile

You may agree with some and of course disagree with others but everyone gets to be heard and thats a good thing.

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

The last time I checked, cows, chickens and fish are not endangered exotic animals. I am NOT a vegitarian and I do hunt (I will only kill something that I would eat) and fish. This doesn't mean I don't respect nature and the animals in it. I think all hunters have an appreciation and respect for nature. Making an animal sit in a cage it's whole life and only being let out to provide "entertainment" is not showing respect. If you had a choice, would you take your chances as a deer during hunting season, or an elephant in a circus trapped in a semi traveling 42 weeks a year? All living things put on this earth have a purpose. Watching lions jump through hoops doesn't serve any purpose other than "entertainment". Butchering a cow provides nourishment. I would rather teach my son empathy for all things.

Jyl Mieling Albertson · Veteran Member

Hi, I didn't even know this site existed until my friend (spacecase) informed me. I tried to log in last night, but didn't get an e-mail notification before I went to bed. I am always up for good conversation with someone that has their mind open and is at actively seeking information for themselves. I didn't realize that having an opinion and speaking your mind would lead to such controversy around here. Even more suprising is that if someone has no good arguement, they think making up lies is acceptable. I DO run a daycare. I am licensed for 12 children. I have a BA degree in Elementary Education and before moving to ND was a substitute teacher in AZ for 4 years (grades K-8). So, taking 7 children with 3 adults present is a walk in the park! My daycare officially CLOSED the day of the circus at 2:45pm. The only children that were with ME were my son-6, and my friends kids ages 7 and 4 (she could not be there do to work).
I'm am not meaning to sound defensive, but my integrity has been questioned, and that irritates me just a little. One thing I would NEVER do is put a child in any kind of danger! None of the kids put so much as a little toe over the curb. The lady and her daughter who approched us, were not coming over in a friendly manner to seek information, they were very hostile. They even went so far as to call social services. For what? I'm guessing that it was because they had no good arguement. Hope that clears up some of the issues.

-- Edited by Jyl Mieling Albertson at 18:41, 2008-04-17

dakotadj · Veteran Member

Jibslider.. it was about cattle..but now that you bring it up ...smile..

Jimmylikesvikes · Veteran Member

This isn't directly related to the protest but it's an interesting zoo mishap nonetheless.

Enjoy !

=====================================================

In 1986, Peter Davies was on holiday in Kenya after graduating from Northwestern University.
On a hike through the bush, he came across a young bull elephant standing with one leg raised in the air. The elephant seemed distressed, so Peter approached it very carefully.

He got down on one knee, inspected the elephant's foot, and found a large piece of wood deeply embedded in it. As carefully and as gently as he could, Peter worked the wood out with his hunting knife, after which the elephant gingerly put down its foot. The elephant turned to face the man, and with a rather curious look on its face, stared at him for several tense moments. Peter stood frozen, thinking of nothing else but being trampled. Eventually the elephant trumpeted loudly, turned, and walked away. Peter never forgot that elephant or the event s of that day.

Twenty years later, Peter was walking through the Chicago Zoo with his teenaged son. As they approached the elephant enclosure, one of the creatures turned and walked over to near where Peter and his son Cameron were standing. The large bull elephant stared at Peter, lifted its front foot off the ground, and then put it down. The elephant did that several times then trumpeted loudly, all the while staring at the man.

Remembering the encounter in 1986, Peter couldn't help wondering if this was the same elephant. Peter summoned up his courage, climbed over the railing, and made his way into the enclosure. He walked right up to the elephant, who stared back in wonder. The elephant trumpeted again, wrapped its trunk around one of Peter's legs, and slammed his stupid a$$ against the railing, killing him instantly.

Probably wasn't the same elephant.

-- Edited by Jimmylikesvikes at 12:24, 2008-04-17

-- Edited by Jimmylikesvikes at 12:26, 2008-04-17

Jibslider · Senior Member

SKM... my comment was going to be a response to Dakatoadj's, "...the castaration, branding and vaccinations are occuring across Williams County."

I'm just not sure he is refering to cattle. smile

Steve Powell · Guru

Thanks Spacecase. She must have been reading the board as she has subscribed to the site.

Keep in mind, we're also pushing for new topics so don't just keep your comments to this thread. As I said before, I'm thrilled that you guys are joining in and hopefully you stay with us as we pass through these issues.

Thanks again!!

Spacecase · Member

These people are not against hunting, fishing, or ranching at all. They are not members of PETA, they do eat meat, fish, and hunt. This protest was for the abuse of EXOTIC animals, i.e. elephants, lions, etc. I know, Steve, you don't want to hear from the middle man, but I haven't gotten a chance to tell them about this board, so I thought I would at least put my two cents in about it anyway. As soon as I can talk to them, I will let them know about it and I KNOW they will be on here explaining their situation and their beliefs about everything. The information in regards to the protestors was also in a Williston Herald article last week with an interview with Jyl Albertson, who started the organization of this wonderful idea. She voices her opinions clear in the paper article and she will, hopefully, be here shortly to do that on here.

Sorry for being the middle man again, but I thought that I would inform you on this information.

SKM · Senior Member

Ok Jib, what would you have us do? Not kill anything for food. Deer over populate and die in the winter. Coyotes have litters of pups who will also die in winter if not fed. Skunks, racoons, rats etc get rabies which in turn will kill them and a human if bitten and not treated by a Human doctor. So there is a place for a thinning out of the herd. And no, I don't agree with abuse of animals. But I do not feel that farmers and hunters are abuseing animals. And if some of these bleeding hearts feel so strongly about this why aren't they protesting people who fish. And I don't mean the Dolphins. I mean fish. You don't see people out there with signs saying SAVE THE CARP! I mean really!! Take a look at India! They're starving over there and what food they get they give to the rats because it may be some dead aunt, uncle or whatever. Give us all a break!

Jibslider · Senior Member

dakotadj wrote:

Next the protestors will be standing outside the corrals in June when the castaration, branding and vaccinations are occuring across Williams County ..

I would really like to make an inappropriate comment right now, but I will bite my liberal west coast tongue. smile