Williston, ND Active Issues

rwaitman · Senior Member

RE: Covering costs of "COYOTES" sports

Slette · Veteran Member

Thanks Jeremy for the kind words!!! You hit the nail right on the head. Myself and the rest of our board at Williston Basin Skating Club are there for one thing. KIDS. It took years to get the Williston Flyers to where they are now. WILLISTON COYOTES. And myself and all other members of our board and club will do everything in our power to keep it growing Thanks again

Willistonrecguy · Veteran Member

Steve,

I think we need to agree to disagree. I read this and took the night to sleep on it and calmly come up with a response.

By your line of thinking do you also believe that if you do not have kids you should not have to give any money to the schools.

Or if you do not use the parks you should not give any money to the parks.

The money comes from the tax payers, but it is the schools. The have some things they have to spend it on then they choose others.

In talking with the A.D. I believe that he/the school would like to do this, but they are going to be safe. I can not blame them. Williston School District One has been under funded for years and now that they have got a little money they have a lot of things they need to make right, infrastructure, saleries, technoligy, etc. I think it will come (just my opinion) but it will take time.

Travel and coaches are the big cost.

I do not believe that having this booster club that raises money for everybody will work. Baseball has and advantage over hockey in that it has a tax supported entity helping them, Parks and Recreation. Hockey does not.

If you think what the hockey club has is so great follow Dave Slette around for a week next year during hockey season. It is like a second job that he does not get paid for. And Dave is not the only one. All of those members of the Hockey board work their asses off. Why, because they want the best program for all of the kids in Williston. Some people may help out as long as there kids are involved, but what happens when most of the parents of the tennis teams are not really active? That program is going to take a hit. It is a lot easier to keep a program at a high level then to bring it to a high level. And then the kids will suffer. I am sorry, but not enough people are going to donate the time it takes to support all of the Williston School District one has to offer.

Bottom Line, I already buy a ton of raffle tickets, candy bars, pizzas, i could not imagine the things kids and parents would be selling if none of the sports were tax supported.

I am a quality of life guy. It is why I am in parks and recreation. And while I want my quality of life to be high, I also want everybody elses quality of life to be high as well.

Your taxes went up because property values went up. And that is because of the oil boom.

Jibslider · Senior Member

Steve Powell wrote:
My point is that in order to be fair to all kids and all sports, it will cost Joe Taxpayer more money. The most important issue here is that this is not fair to the thousands of Joe Taxpayers that don't have kids in sports. Why should they bear the burden of paying for our kids sports? What happens when soccer becomes the next big sport in high school? Do we add them to the budget? Then something like Lacrosse and extreme sports and so on? They'll be wanting this "fairness" thing too. Expecting the school district to fund these sports will become the burden of the taxpayers. You can't get around that.
---
The "fairness" arguement with taxes will always be a constant struggle in our society. There is absolutely no way for 100% fairness when it comes to deciding what to publicly fund... whether it is extracurricular activities in public school such as music, athletics, art, other educational necessities like textbooks, proper facilites, and even teachers, or other things like highway road construction (Theodore Roosevelt expressway? Hahahaha), subsidies for oil/gasoline, emergency services, etc.
Crotchity folks who feel that taxes are in place to punish them need to realize that these taxes are in place to fund programs/activities /improvements that are in place for the betterment of society. There is no way most of these programs could survive without public money.

Specifically speaking of Williston, I stongly feel education and especially extracurricular programs should be the top funding priorities of most Willistonites. The main issue with Williston is that there are not many private opportunites for the youth of the city after class lets out, unless you count kegging down at cedar coulee. Everybody knows the benefits of music, art, and athletic programs... these programs shape and teach the youth of today numerous important personal lessons that cannot be learned in a traditional Earth Science class.

Extracurricular activies are so important for high schoolers who are looking into furthering their education. Many of the admissions comitees for universities and graduate schools weigh heavily on extracurricular activities when deciding whom to admit into their programs... Some of the most "successful" people that I graduated from WHS with were VERY involved in the wonderful extracurricular activites that were available at the time, and they (and myself) didn't necessarily get stellar grades.

Hearing people without children complain that they have to pay taxes on educational and after-school programs... and that this isn't benefiting them infuriates me. I'm sure most people wouldn't want an uneducated elected leader (locally, nationally it's been a different story for the past 8 years ). These leaders I'm sure benefited from the educational opportunities public education provided, and the future leaders of our community need the funding from the citizens so that they can strive for success as well.

Slette · Veteran Member

No big deal Steve. Its just the last time I think I was called "Mr. Slette". It was Gary Huber at WHS. And things didnt turn out so good.

Steve Powell · Guru

I agree, Randy. These kinds of debates are actually very healthy to hold. Hopefully Dave didn't think I was trying to disrespect him when I used the "Mr. Slette" thing. Besides, I know better than to run my mouth off to guys as big as Dave. biggrin

rwaitman · Senior Member

Hey! I 'll tell you what...this is great. I think the give and take on this thread the last little bit, is exactly the kinda stuff we need to see....I don't think anyone is offended but the debate is getting pretty good.

All the lurkers are getting entertained and the rest of us are actually having to use our brains....not to mention the fact that we are actually all interested in the same sort of results....positive things for Williston; just see various ways to get there.

That is what I thought this page was going to be about....kudos to Jeremy, Dave, and Steve. Spirited discussion...good stuff.
;o)

Steve Powell · Guru

Some programs cost such little amount of money I can't imagine it would take much to raise enough. How much does it cost to have a speech team? What kind of equipment do they have? Travel costs, a coach. The judges IMO should be volunteers.

How much of the ticket sales go back to these sports? I would think basketball and football must generate a fairly good amount of money from ticket sales to put back into the program.

Isn't there a Coyote booster club anymore? One organization to raise money for all activities? Wouldn't that help ease the tax burden and still give all these opportunities for these kids?

I don't have the answers here, I'm just throwing out suggestions. But, I just received a huge TAX INCREASE from the city Tax guy (I know, not your fault Brian) and the thought of funding every program that comes along with tax dollars wasn't sitting very well with me.

Thanks for listening to me rant though. hmm

Steve Powell · Guru

I'm not really surprised, Jeremy.

You talk about don't let the school off the hook. It's not the schools money. It's the taxpayers money. So essentially what you're saying is...don't let the taxpayer off the hook.

Benifits-

Teamwork
Leadership
Sportsmanship
Hardwork
Socialization
Recreation
Community Moral
Scholarship oppertunities

I know what sports brings to kids. I have a physical education degree. But I also know that you don't spread yourself so thin in activities that you have to tax the taxpayers to death to fund them. Either that or the amount of taxes you have to give them is so small they still end up looking for their own funds anyways.

Grampa Steve Powell has to Pay an extra couple bucks on his taxes every year of his life.

Steve Powell pays these taxes for 60+ years of his life (God willing) not just as a grandpa and THAT ADDS UP TO ALOT. Far more than we should have to spend to be "fair" to everyone.

"Could you imagine every activity having to all of its own fundraising.
Football, tennis, basketball, Band, debate, etc."

Are you saying there's something wrong with expecting people to pay their own way without handouts from the government? Isn't that called enabling? Yes I can imagine these activities having to earn their own way. They do this in many cities in the US. Asking that question is like asking, "Can you imagine every citizen having to earn his/her own living without government support?" Hmmm...now there's a concept!!

Slette · Veteran Member

Steve you are right, we do agree in a way. But I feel if we went to self funded activities, not only sports. The very small activities would slowly just go away. debate team, speech team. Things like that would be done dont you think?

rwaitman · Senior Member

The School Board has established a precedent on non-funding for other new sports. It will be very hard for another board to change that, but as I said in an earlier post, a new Board, having the wherewithal to do so, can surely choose to fund any new sport or extracurricular activity...or not; as they see fit.

I think that the compromise that was reached with several groups, including both our taekwondo program and the karate program, some years ago..under the Direction of then Board President Kathy Schmitz, was just about as reasonable as you could get.

LaCrosse or any other sport or activity is every bit as valid, valuable, and equally meritorious as those traditional sports such as football, basketball, volleyball and track which are fully funded. The School Districts simply have to draw the line somewhere.

The concept of sports and extracurricular activities is pretty much exactly like the Rec Guy laid out, and for all of those reasons...not to mention physical fitness in sports.

Of course it is not fair, but there it is....

Steve Powell · Guru

Actually, the "Mr. Slette" was supposed to be more of a show of respect during the debate. I catch myself doing that at work quite often. I'll go back to just Dave. biggrin

Yep, I understood what you were saying. I knew you weren't implying that you thought there should be more taxes. I understood your point to be that since the schoolboard can find ways to pay their admins more regardless of the state of the budget, why can't they find a way to fund EVERY SPORT to make it fair to all of the kids.

This administration will ALWAYS pay themselves first...unfortunately.  And I have to guess that spreading funds evenly must be difficult since some sports bring in more ticket sales than others thus they should receive more funding.

My point is that in order to be fair to all kids and all sports, it will cost Joe Taxpayer more money. The most important issue here is that this is not fair to the thousands of Joe Taxpayers that don't have kids in sports. Why should they bear the burden of paying for our kids sports?  What happens when soccer becomes the next big sport in high school? Do we add them to the budget? Then something like Lacrosse and extreme sports and so on? They'll be wanting this "fairness" thing too. Expecting the school district to fund these sports will become the burden of the taxpayers. You can't get around that.

Now let's go back to hockey. That is a very well run program. I give that organization tons of credit for building it outside of the school but with help from both the parks and the school district. I'm not saying the Coyote football program should be run like the hockey program, but I'm not against placing more of the costs on the parents.

If you figure the cost of how much of your taxes goes towards the school districts budget for athletics over your lifetime of paying taxes versus how much it costs to fund your own kids sports for however long they participate, which do you think would be the greater amount?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you and I agree that the current way of doing things isn't right. But, we have different approaches as to what should be done to fix it. You being for keeping the taxes and not raising them.   Me being for removing these line items from the budget and lowering the taxes of the taxpayer.

How's that Bruce? biggrin

Willistonrecguy · Veteran Member

WOW

Steve I could not disagree more. Sports and all activities are essential part of school. And if they were totally self funded some fringe sports would not exsit. Do not let the schools off the hook.

Benifits-

Teamwork
Leadership
Sportsmanship
Hardwork
Socialization
Recreation
Community Moral
Scholarship oppertunities

Negitives-

Grampa Steve Powell has to Pay an extra couple bucks on his taxes every year of his life.

Could you imagine every activity having to all of its own fundraising.
Football, tennis, basketball, Band, debate, etc.

Some programs would survive and do very well, others would fade away.

gundo · Senior Member

good point Dave.

Slette · Veteran Member

Wow Steve, Mr. Slette..... I thought we new each other better than that. Anyway, Dave will be fine. When I said that hockey was doing so well I meant as far as growing in numbers every year and having a successful feeder program to the High School level. I have never said anything about extra taxes for hockey. All I am saying is that money that is budgeted for athletics at Williston High School could be spread out more evenly across the board. Its a simple question. Why pay for some sports but not others.

Steve Powell · Guru

So perhaps, Mr. Slette, since the boys hockey program does so well on it's own we need to think outside the box more and consider what options are available for all of the other sports to do the same thing.

Adding programs that are funded by the district still costs Joe Taxpayer extra tax dollars and working towards self funding sports means fewer taxes for us. I'll admit, it would cost those of us with kids much more money up front but in the long run it's far less expensive since we don't have to bear that part of the tax burden once the kids are out of school.

And yes, I would be all for helping those families that can't afford to go that route someway, somehow.

After all, the hockey program has been very successful this way.

Slette · Veteran Member

My wife and I are not only "Hockey Parents". But we are also boys baseball, girls softball, volleyball, and girls basketball parents. The whole point of this discussion is why is it fair for the district to pay for some sports and not others. Just because your child chooses to play hockey and baseball doesnt mean they are any different than the child who chooses basketball and football. The district can always find money for raises for administration and the likes of that but when it comes to finding the funds to make it fair across the board that is unattainable. And the last time I checked it seems to me that Williston hockey has a great program going. Our numbers go nothing but up every year. Which is not the case in other programs.

Mica · Veteran Member

EW!

Steve Powell · Guru

Thank goodness swimming isn't as expensive as hockey! I hate to even imagine having to purchase used gear for that sport. doh

Hey! Anyone have a large Speedo they'd like to sell!

Willistonrecguy · Veteran Member

I realize that it is a huge expense, but the School District should figure out a way to pay for this.

The one that blows my mind is boys swimming. (Which is ironic considering that I have a vested interest in hockey- girl in hockey, and baseball- work for parks and rec and we with the help of the baseball committee support high school baseball.) The expense for boys swimming is travel and coaching and not alot else. The thing that blows my mind is that the school pays for girls swimming, but boys have to support them self.

Thanks to all of the general public that donate time and money to the Swim Club, Hockey Club, and Baseball Committee to give our kids an oppertunity to compete in these sports.

Mica · Veteran Member

I have to agree that is super frustrating.

Stork · Member

Its so funny how the district never has enough money to make things fair across the board. But if it comes to raises for the administration or sprinkler systems at all elementary schools. Or something that kind of looks like a football field at Rickard elementary, They have NO TROUBLE finding those funds!!!!!!!

rwaitman · Senior Member

Well Guys.... I never said it was fair; and I agree with you fully..in principle. We all simply missed the curve.....the traditional sports...football, basketball, and track got the high sign a long time ago...then volleyball, tennis, and wrestling got some of the largess....most of the rest of us are "johnny-come-latelys" and there are simply not enough dollars available.

If you had a school board with 3 out of 5 rabid hockey moms or dads, or 3 out of 5 baseball junkies, or taekwondo or karate or whatever, you could probably get some of the moolah. However, since it seems like most of the people, most of the time, are uncomfortable with change, of any sort...particularly in our hometown, you'll probably have to wait until pigs fly. (see my avatar)

So...in a nutshell, if you have uhhh... if you'll excuse my french... the cajones to take over the local school board, and have your own way come heck or high water, then so much the power to you. You won't hear any complaints from me. That is how the political system works. There is sometimes so much apathy in the community, it is pitiful. People don't seem to get fired up until it affects them up close and personally.

Somebody get out there and run...for whatever.....

I might not agree with what you do, but I will defend to the death your right to be wrong.

;o)
R

colearndt · Newbie

I Agree with Stork. Hockey, Baseball, and I believe swimming all carry the Williston Coyote name and represent Williston High School the same as the rest of the high school sports so why should they not also receive some of the same funding as the other high school sports. These student athletes must adhere to the same academic standards as the rest of these sports and do not get any "perks" for participating in these club sponsored sports. If anything, they are at a disadvantage.

Cole

Stork · Member

Sorry Randy but that still doesnt answer the ? of why they pay for some sports but not others. What ever happened to sharing the piece of the pie with everyone, not just a choosen few?

rwaitman · Senior Member

To the School Board's credit...they have had to make some tough decisions over the years regarding varsity sports....we went through this some 10 years ago regarding varsity taekwondo and karate.

In recognition of the fact that both club sports are very rigorous physical exercise and have a structured game format, with considerable high school and jr high school participation, the board determined they were deserving of the "varsity letter".

This was a precedent setting decision for martial art programs all over the country and a number of high schools in the US have followed suit.

The bigger argument was whether or not this would open the floodgates for other not-traditional sports...such as "basketweaving" or "tiddly winks" to demand the same. Of course our comeback was that if a basketweaving and tiddly winks had organized to the level of Olympic and/or Pan American status then by all means, allow them in.

Hockey, swimming, gymnastics, and others might feel shortchanged, but that is the way of life. All of us, tend to feel like we need a bigger piece of the pie, and we surely deserve some support, but the fact of the matter is, nobody promised us a rose garden...we gotta make do with what we got.

....and away we goooooo...

;o)

ranramsey · Veteran Member

Thanks for the clarification....as past board member your insight on the subject is helpful.......

colearndt · Newbie

Only part of what Randy said is true. The hockey club does not directly hire the varsity coach. The coach is actually hired by the high school with representation from the hockey board (2 members). And for the hockey "club" to have these varsity teams, they pay the high school $35,000-$45,000 a year to cover the varisty program costs. This is why it costs $400 per player for them to play varsity hockey along with many hours of service from the parents from working the concessions, gate, and cleaning. I do believe the school should look at helping out these "club" teams a little more. I'm not saying they need to flip for the entire bill, but all varsity programs should be treated equally and hence should receive the saming funding across the board. We all pay taxes to the school that covers part of the current school sponsored sports and I believe this money should be share for ALL Coyote varsity sports.

--------
Cole
Past Hockey brd member

-- Edited by colearndt at 21:17, 2008-03-31

ranramsey · Veteran Member

I can explain the details...but some of these sports are 'club sports.' The hockey club, for example, hires the hockey coach, not the school. They are still governed by NDHSAA rules, to be able to compete in the post season tournaments. Other than this, I agree that the schools should foot some of the bill.....

Mica · Veteran Member

Is swimming not a school sport? I always wondered that about baseball - why it wasnt a "coyote" sport rather than just the Legion team. How do they decide what they pay for and what they dont? Who decides?

Stork · Member

Just to maybe start a new topic. What are the feelings of readers as to the school districts ability to pay for some sports at WHS, but not others. They pay the bills for basketball, football, track, wrestling, tennis,and I'm sure there are more. But what about baseball, hockey, and swimming. Why are those kids any different, other than they have chosen a different sport to participate in. Any thoughts?