Williston, ND Active Issues

rwaitman · Senior Member

RE: Covering costs of "COYOTES" sports

yankeefan · Member

Since the topic of softball came up, ( I know this off the subject of Coyote sports) I have one question about adult softball. I had heard that WPR will be charging softball teams who tailgate in the parking lot after games a $15 permit. Just curious, why has this fee come into effect, and what does it go towards....sorry Jeremy I guess this question is kind of pointed towards you.. smile

Mica · Veteran Member

Well I ASSUMED that our travels were paid for by Parks and Rec but now I'm not so sure after you said that. What exactly DID P&R pay for at that time if they didnt pay for travels? Dont get me wrong, our parents were the biggest contributors to our travels and equipment, etc, but our team was not the "Keybirdettes" - it was the Adducci All Stars. We didnt play at a field nearly as nice as Aafedt - in fact, we practiced alot of times on the field over by the UMARC that they used to flood for a skating rink. I'm glad to hear that the softball program has been getting more funding as of late - it (sort of) kept me out of trouble during the summers!!

-- Edited by Mica at 10:09, 2008-04-22

Willistonrecguy · Veteran Member

rwaitman wrote:

Wow! That's great. I have been teaching taekwondo in Williston for 30 years, and we have never received any financial aid from anyone. I just recently took 14 kids to Billings to compete in a taekwondo tournament. Between our club and the parents, we managed to get them all there and back, but it was pretty spendy. Our traveling team is non-profit. Can you help us out, too?

The parents will really appreciate it.

Randy

Girls Softball is a Parks and Recreation Program.

Maybe we could help out your taekwando program. I would just need you to do the following:

Give the entire program to Parks and Recreation.
Turn over all financials.
And Rename it Williston Parks and Recreation Taekwando.

Then we will support it.

Randy could I get a little info on your program. Are you non profit? Have you been losing money for 30 years?

Do you really believe that we should finiancially support a program that is not ours?

At the same time should we give money to Elizabeth's Dance Expressions, Williston Gymnastics, Dance Fever, etc

Hey while we are at it why don't we pay for the Jaycees to travel to there national convention.

Why stop there, maybe anytime anybody form Williston takes a vacation we should throw them some money.

PARKS AND RECREATION SUPPORTS IT OWN PROGRAMS TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY!!!!!!!

rwaitman · Senior Member

Willistonrecguy wrote:

Since I have been here we have supported the girls softball teams. And since Darin has been here the support has increased. We raise as much money as we can and what we do not raise we figure out a way to make it happen, the best we can.

Wow! That's great. I have been teaching taekwondo in Williston for 30 years, and we have never received any financial aid from anyone. I just recently took 14 kids to Billings to compete in a taekwondo tournament. Between our club and the parents, we managed to get them all there and back, but it was pretty spendy. Our traveling team is non-profit. Can you help us out, too?

The parents will really appreciate it.

Randy

Willistonrecguy · Veteran Member

Since I have been here we have supported the girls softball teams. And since Darin has been here the support has increased. We raise as much money as we can and what we do not raise we figure out a way to make it happen, the best we can.

rwaitman · Senior Member

Steve Powell wrote:

Really? And the Parks and Rec allowed that? Very interesting! And that worked out just fine for you guys?

I don't really remember P&R supporting any traveling team other than Boys Baseball, financially but those girls teams referenced might have been before my time. In fact, our policy (during my three terms) was that we would support only recreational activities, and traveling teams were on their own. There were a number of grey areas with Boys Baseball, which were never really resolved, but that is water under the bridge.

The Mission Statement of Williston Parks and Recreation does not include anything about supporting traveling teams so that was pretty much where we drew the line.

;o)

Steve Powell · Guru

Really? And the Parks and Rec allowed that? Very interesting! And that worked out just fine for you guys?

Mica · Veteran Member

Are the girls softball teams still privately funded? When I was on the All Stars teams from Junior High through High School, we were mostly funded by private parties (mostly Dr. Adducci) and got a little help from Parks and Rec for travelling.

rwaitman · Senior Member

Steve Powell wrote:

There's one area that the baseball committee could commit to more and that's the youth baseball program. With the state that Aafedt Stadium is in and now that Grondahl Stadium is functional, there's no reason we can't have actual youth baseball fields.

You build your upper level teams from the youth programs so why not get the right infrastructure in place for them? Cal Ripken fields with actual pitchers mounds and short portches.

Now, I will add this, in speaking with Darin, he has plans to, at some point, build these fields somewhere. But if the baseball committee is willing to commit so much time and money to the Keybirds, would they be willing to do something like this for the youth program as well?

College will have new premier ball field by the fall....if apporoached correctly i bet they would be willing to help out....We also had a plan when I was still on the board to convert the two Pheasant Run Diamonds....guess that fell by the wayside...

Slette · Veteran Member

It seems that there are only a few of us discussing this and I guess
we will just have to "agree to disagree'.

I will just have to say that my stance is that I feel that there is nothing wrong with cross-funding to help other sports out. Unfortunatly some of you out there feel its a situation where everyone one should pay for there own activities.

I sure hope the majority of the people of Williston do not feel the same, as there are a lot of so called "club sports" out there that need, and welcome all the help we can get.

On behalf of the Williston Basin Skating Club I want to thank School District ! for the help we are recieving. Together we can keep up the good work on a great Coyote Hockey Program.

Thanks again everybody,

Dave Slette

-- Edited by Slette at 14:57, 2008-04-21

-- Edited by Slette at 14:58, 2008-04-21

Steve Powell · Guru

There's one area that the baseball committee could commit to more and that's the youth baseball program. With the state that Aafedt Stadium is in and now that Grondahl Stadium is functional, there's no reason we can't have actual youth baseball fields.

You build your upper level teams from the youth programs so why not get the right infrastructure in place for them? Cal Ripken fields with actual pitchers mounds and short portches.

Now, I will add this, in speaking with Darin, he has plans to, at some point, build these fields somewhere. But if the baseball committee is willing to commit so much time and money to the Keybirds, would they be willing to do something like this for the youth program as well?

rickywaitman · Veteran Member

No one has ever said that the baseball committee doesn't bust their butt to build boys baseball. I've seen it all growing up. They do a heck of a job. I just want to make sure that we aren't making a "jewel" at the expense of some other programs. Again, I DON"T KNOW... I don't have any for sure statistics, so I don't assume to know everything. I'm just trying to learn and study up on what I believe are important issues.

Since you weren't sure of percentages, how can someone find out how much money has been spent on what through the Park District? I'd feel more comfortable giving my opinion on things knowing all the facts, not just on my assumptions.

rickywaitman · Veteran Member

First and foremost, I absolutely don't want programs to dissapear either. In the stimulated economy that Williston has right now, there is plenty of money to go around. If I was making decisions for the school district and a team came to me that wasn't representing the school district, I don't see how I could give them money. There are a number of programs within the school district that can't get up and going because of funding so it would be unfair to give an outside program that money.

You get into a bit of a grey area when you share space such as fields, rinks and pools. That's where some of the problem of who is responsible for what comes into play.

If it's a school sport, I believe the school district should pay for it. That being said, they have to keep a balance in their funding as well.

For sports outside of the school district. I believe in the Marketplace Theory. Take the activities and programs to the community. The programs that the community wants will be supported financially through the local businesses and participants.

In a perfect world, all programs would have equal funding and plenty of it. Obviously that's not the case. Private funding can go anywhere and be "unbalanced".

Willistonrecguy · Veteran Member

I do not know the percentage of how much goes to each sport. But the baseball committee raises a lot of money for baseball. They also work a lot for baseball. Two years a go we put a warning track into Aafedt Stadium. All funds were raised by boys baseball. Most of the labor was done by boys baseball. When it was finished the baseball committee wanted nothing in return. WPR is owns Affedt Stadium. Last year the baseball committe raised money for a new scoreboard, and it became baseball property.

With a lot of our programs it is not a money issue. You mentioned tennis. I would love to get a great tennis coach, the problem is that it does not seem to matter how much I pay, the best i can do is get high school kids to coach it.

Steve Powell · Guru

Slette wrote:

sorry cant spell because my bad

But you could have edited your post so the rest of us would never have known. biggrin You're honesty, though, is admirable!! biggrin

Steve Powell · Guru

These sound like good discussions for a debate! Dave, I haven't gotten a reply from you or Larry yet. The other three are ready to go. You in?

Slette · Veteran Member

sorry cant spell because my bad

Slette · Veteran Member

Rick,

Since your not in favor of any kind of co-funding of any sports, what should the groups that need help from the school district do to keep their programs going strong?

I sure would hate to see any programs disappear becaiue of lack of funds.

rickywaitman · Veteran Member

I wouldn't call the coyote baseball team a club sport either. I would call them a school sport. I am of the opinion that a school sport, representing the school, should be paid for by the school. A team representing a certain club should be paid for by that club. A team representing P&R should be paid for by the P&R. IN A PERFECTLY STRUCTURED SITUATION...

That being said, the keybirds have a fantastic program. If they are a P&R program, how much funding from the Williston Parks and Rec do they receive? Is it proportional to the other programs? I know what it takes to maintain a field, properly equip a team and to travel. Williston Boys Baseball offsets some of that cost but just curious about percentages of $$$ received from the Parks and Rec.

I have no idea how much money, time, labor is given which is why I'm asking. It's not a pointed question, just curious.

Baseball is my favorite sport. I'll always remember playing for the Keybirds but I know a number of people who would love to have a tennis team or a golf team or a soccer team be the "jewel" of the program.

How do we balance all of that out? How do we pick and choose what team receives the bulk of the finances? How do we determine who's our "jewel"?

Willistonrecguy · Veteran Member

Ricky,

The Keybirds are not a club sport. It is a parks and recreation program. If you were to talk to baseball people around the state you would find that most of them would say that the way we are structured to run summer baseball is better then most.

I AM VERY PROUD TO SAY I WORK FOR WILLISTON PARKS AND RECREATION. WE HAVE A LOT OF GREAT PROGRAMS. OUR CENTER JEWEL IS THE BASEBALL PROGRAM. AND OUR CENTER JEWEL OF THE BASEBALL PROGRAM IS THE KEYBIRDS.

Now maybe I should not call the Coyote baseball team a club sport, because Parks and Recreation is not he same as the Hockey Club. But if I can not say that it is a club sport, do I say it is a Parks and Recreation Program?

DC · Member

rickywaitman wrote:

A club sport to me is just that, a club. The club covers all the cost. I realize with the Keybirds, the cost is offset by P&R as well. With wrestling and volleyball, the club covered all the costs. That's what drove the price up. Did it cost more to run the activity? No. Was there an outside source of funding? No. That's why the cost was more. More probably wasn't the right word, cost dispersment to the participant was higher is probably a more accurate way to describe it.

Also, with the club sports travel was further, longer and obviously more expensive.

Like I had mentioned, I believe the best scenario would be to have high school sports funded by the school district, club sports funded by the club and the P&R would allocate money based on percentages for recreation activities. I guess we just may have a different perception of what a "club" sport is. To me it's a seperate entity with no overlap of bills, decisions or input. In a larger city, there could be numerous clubs for each sport. That's what I mean when i say club. Not just the sport itself. I know we're not to that point yet but hopefully in the future...

Rick,

I understand what you are saying when you say "club sports" should be funded by the club. But, when they are not the Williston Flyers or Keybirds or Sea Lions and they are Williston Coyotes, don't you think they are then part of the school?

When you were talking about club wrestling and volleyball they were not playing for their school. We are not asking them help fund any other part of our program besides the Coyote teams.

Just my thoughts.

Slette · Veteran Member

Hey Steve did i mention the $8000.00 a month to run the compressors.

Slette · Veteran Member

Actually its a little more. Total is around 14,000.00 for coaches. 3 for boys and 2 for girls. But we do have great people in these positions!!!!!

Steve Powell · Guru

Wow, I'm guessing the coaches salary was slightly less then? 7 month season? That doesn't appear to be insurmountable.

Slette · Veteran Member

For the season that just ended our bill for transportation for both the boys and girls teams was just under $10,000.00.

yankeefan · Member

Go Yankees....I'm here for you, Dave

Steve Powell · Guru

I agree for sure.

You bring up some good points Dave. The district has a hockey program representing it's name that it can be very proud of. You guys have done a tremendous job for sure.

I see no reason the whole program should have to be handed over. This is no different than how the business world works. Companies work together all the time to produce a great product. The beautiful thing here as that each entity bears a portion of the load so long as both can afford to.

My only concern, and I stressed from the beginning, is that if the school starts taking on this portion of the load for hockey, that sets a precedence for other sports/activities to request the same which starts to put a larger burden on the budget for the district. Will the district not ask to raise it's mills in a scenario like this? If the mills don't have to go up in order to support the added sports/activities then I'm all for it. You guys certainly deserve it. But if I have to start paying for those added sports/activities, I'm not so certain I stand behind it.

My conversation with Dave Hanson made me feel more comfortable knowing they had dropped the mills and were still able to at least provide funding for transportation. I am curious though how much transportation is costing you guys. Is it a significant "bone" so to speak?

Slette · Veteran Member

Steve, WBSC doos get the gate and the concessions for the Coyote boys and girls games. In a perfect world if we were to get the District to pick up not only busing, but coaching also. WBSC could pay for everthing else to run the program and life would be good. I dont feel that is has to be either one or the other running the program. We as a club can work together with the school to put the best program out there possible. We welcome the help.

Jibslider · Senior Member

Slette, Yankees?!

You've lost ALL credibility from me. smile

Steve Powell · Guru

Dave,
Do you know if the skating club gets the procedes from ticket and concession sales?

rickywaitman · Veteran Member

A club sport to me is just that, a club. The club covers all the cost. I realize with the Keybirds, the cost is offset by P&R as well. With wrestling and volleyball, the club covered all the costs. That's what drove the price up. Did it cost more to run the activity? No. Was there an outside source of funding? No. That's why the cost was more. More probably wasn't the right word, cost dispersment to the participant was higher is probably a more accurate way to describe it.

Also, with the club sports travel was further, longer and obviously more expensive.

Like I had mentioned, I believe the best scenario would be to have high school sports funded by the school district, club sports funded by the club and the P&R would allocate money based on percentages for recreation activities. I guess we just may have a different perception of what a "club" sport is. To me it's a seperate entity with no overlap of bills, decisions or input. In a larger city, there could be numerous clubs for each sport. That's what I mean when i say club. Not just the sport itself. I know we're not to that point yet but hopefully in the future...

Slette · Veteran Member

Skm, breaking away from the school is not an option for us. Without the support of them we are back to playing junior gold, which is a real club sport. NDHSAA would drop us from their program and it would be no more Williston Coyotes. None of us at WBSC want that. We just need a little more funding.

SKM · Senior Member

Slette, I see where your coming from! So it's kind of like the School "bitch slaps" these clubs into a do what we say type of thing. Thats CRAZY!! I think you need to break away from the school all together! I know that would be costly but, take it to the Mattresses. Fight. And Fight hard. Maybe some of these big oil companies would be willing to donate money to the clubs. They'd benefit in the long run. It looks good, they can deduct the cost from their taxes AND they can afford it! There HAS to be some way to fix this.

Slette · Veteran Member

rickywaitman wrote:

Thinking back to my experiences with club sports (keybird baseball, basin wrestling and coaching Volleyball in CO), club sports always come with a higher price tag. This falls back on the club and obviously, the parents. The clubs I mentioned are just that, clubs. They're seperate from any school activity. All funding is seperate.

I'm not really familiar with the way the hockey club is structured but it sounds like there's definitely some grey area between the "club" and the coyotes. If I was getting bills and had no say in the program I'd be a bit miffed as well...

I got nothing as far as the hockey program goes but I did like the way the others were ran. No confusion and a great time! I may have missed it in the thread but what do you pay your hockey coach?

Rick, I guess my first question to you would have to be why if a sport is a "club sport" it is more costly. I dont think that a basketball program run by a school district would be anymore costly than one run by a private club. Its just a matter of who is paying the bills. Also funding is not all seperate. Im sure its different for each one. As i said earlier, district 1 has agreed to pay for bussing for our hockey club for the 2008-2009 season. We appreciate that so much and thank them for their support. We at the basin skating club have a great relationship with WHS. We are growing faster than any sport in Williston and any help we get from district 1 is welcome. As far as your coaching question we are paying the going rate like everyone else.

rickywaitman · Veteran Member

Thinking back to my experiences with club sports (keybird baseball, basin wrestling and coaching Volleyball in CO), club sports always come with a higher price tag. This falls back on the club and obviously, the parents. The clubs I mentioned are just that, clubs. They're seperate from any school activity. All funding is seperate.

I'm not really familiar with the way the hockey club is structured but it sounds like there's definitely some grey area between the "club" and the coyotes. If I was getting bills and had no say in the program I'd be a bit miffed as well...

I got nothing as far as the hockey program goes but I did like the way the others were ran. No confusion and a great time! I may have missed it in the thread but what do you pay your hockey coach?

rwaitman · Senior Member

Willistonrecguy wrote:

Ahhh Heck! Jeremy....and here I was all ready to quiz you some more.....gotta appreciate your sense of humor...
;o)

Slette · Veteran Member

SKM To pit in Lay-mans terms, and this is only MY opinion, The A.D. for school district 1 is in charge of coaching, rooms, travel,meals, and other things for all activities at the district. The only real difference is the so called "club sports" which is a term I hate, the club gets a bill. No say in how the program is run, just a bill. That is the part that frustrates me. Even if district 1 picked up travel and coaching it would be nice if we as a club had an little influence in the operation of the program.

Willistonrecguy · Veteran Member

Steve Powell · Guru

Cole, you didn't see how much more money the city received due to sales tax this past year? It doubled from the year before...or something like that. Plus, how many new houses have gone up since last year? The city is certainly reaping the benny's due to this increase.

After more thought, I'm not gonna complain because we have an opportunity to make the city a better place to live than it was back in the recession of the 90's.

colearndt · Newbie

The Hockey club actually decided to opt out of the Coyote booster season tickets because we only recieved a couple hundred $ from them and it was no comparison to what we could collect with our own season tickets or normal gate fees. The board made this decision about 2 years ago.

And going back to the tax issue. I agree with Steve that I don't like to see my taxes increasing but I understand the increase. The more people that move into the city, the larger the requirement on the city services...public works, law enforcement, schools, roads,... And unfortunately the people that are coming into town aren't bearing this burden because they are renting apartments or living in motels and hence aren't paying the property taxes.

Cole

DC · Member

Thanks Dave. I was wrong.

SKM · Senior Member

I think it's crazy that the Hockey Club pays that much to the School each year. I just don't understand what is going on. Could some please explaine to me, in lay man terms, what the difference is. I'm really confused now!! weirdface

Slette · Veteran Member

Hey Darcy, I went back and doubled checked and the season pass Carla has is only good for basketball, girls basketball, football, wrestling, volleyball. no hockey on this ticket. But maybe they have different ones.

Slette · Veteran Member

Nope your booster club season pass doesnt get you into Coyote Hockey. But I will gladly sell anyone who wants one for next season $100.00.

Steve Powell · Guru

Quick question regarding activities like speech versus sports like football. Do the kids that participate in activities like speech and band have to pay the same fee as those in football or basketball?

Steve Powell · Guru

Shouldn't that be up to the hockey club though? It's their gate. Although I suppose the NDHSAA might have something to say about that in which case that's a bed that the hockey club has to sleep in and that wouldn't be the high schools fault. I can't imagine that's something the hockey board would agree to though if they had a choice. If they did they must have gotten something in return.

Thanks Darcy, now I'm curious about that one.

DC · Member

Dave,

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Coyote Booster Club season pass also get you into hockey games? I don't think the hockey club gets anything back from that. I could be wrong though.

Jimmylikesvikes · Veteran Member

Willistonrecguy wrote:

Jimmy

"David, that's intersting.... 5/200. And in Rochester, park and recreation would take care of that job. I don't know if I would want to do that job either. That's the primary difference. Parents pay for some coaching, personal equipment, traveling fees, etc. while the city supports the required infrastructure. Money is raised when needed for any extras.. perhaps a special tournament, helping out families that cannot afford the expenses, etc"

You are kind of contradicting yourself, you want parents to support there kids programs, but you would not want to clean the building your club owns. You think a tax supported entity should do it for you.

Jimmy find out what is going on here, because it sound the same as rochester, except your school does support all fo there sports.

With that I Tag out.

Contradicting? That's the problem with a long message board thread. Read all my postings on this thread and you might understand where I stand. Actually, don't read every posting.. I already had to appologize twice

. OK Jeremy, educate me. I'm not familiar enough with Williston to know David was talking about a club versus a high school sport. And yeah, I'm probably stupid enough to volunteer to help out for a club.... I've done it several times but never seem to regret it. You know what I mean.. things like carrying every chair and table in a volleyball center...you get the picture. You are right, for clubs, you just do it for whatever reason and wonder where all the other parents are.

How much do families in Williston fund high school sports? I'm not referring to clubs. I'm talking about high school sports. In Rochester, we have clubs and high school sports. Both of which are very competitive and successfully run. How much does the community fund high school sports outside of paying taxes?

In Rochester, families provide financially for clubs. Parents with kids in high school sports also pay fees... substantial fees. Of course it's all depending on what sport we are talking about.

Steve Powell · Guru

Streak2....NICE. I've only heard the rumors.