Williston, ND Active Issues

Steve Powell · Guru

New Community Park

SKM · Senior Member

-- Edited by SKM at 04:08, 2008-09-02

rwaitman · Senior Member

Steve Powell wrote:

OK Randy, I guess I lied. That last post was something I guess I felt the community should hear and should hopefully settle everyone down.

Been out of town...and out of touch....just catching up on reading and please note that Steve's replies on this thread recently are directed towards Randy Ramsey, not me.

My spin on the community builders thing is that I think the P&R Dept has it all wrong. For multiple reasons. Having said that, I also believe that what Steve has posted is correct. It serves no purpose to keep pointing fingers and using the he said-she said line of attack. I served on that board for 12 years; the last two as President and can attest to that from an up close and personal perspective. Everyone loses and no one wins. If the Community Builders believes in their project (s)...then they should just move ahead and to ...ahem... let my red-neckedness show.... "git er done'.

An anonymous poster recently wrote a well thought out letter in the Herald GuestBook questioning the process, procedures, and ethical issues relating to the proposed community park. Unfortunately he/she did not sign it so it lost some impact. I just read in the Herald, a response/rebuttal by members of the Park Board. It was also well thought out.

Steve's approach on the issue seems to be to just move on and move ahead rather than continue a counter to the counter to the counter. He is correct. It serves no purpose to bicker back and forth. This Park Board, whether or not you agree with their decisions, mildly or strongly, was elected by a majority of the people who bothered to vote, to make these decisions. Let them do their job. If you do not like their decisions, or have questions about their abilities, conflict of interests, honesty, integrity, morals...or any other darned thing, then you have two options...elect someone else next time, or recall them in a "re-vote" in which people newly educated in issues and current events, have a second chance. Other wise..just zip it. The election is over and there is much work to do for the greater good of the community.

;o)
Randy (Waitman)

Steve Powell · Guru

OK Randy, I guess I lied. That last post was something I guess I felt the community should hear and should hopefully settle everyone down.

Steve Powell · Guru

I think the one thing the community needs to remember is that our group is called the Community Builders, not the Community Dividers. By engaging in a war of words and trying to prove to the community who's right and who's wrong does several things.

First of all, it sends a message to the public that there is a feeling of a need to defend something. We, the Community Builders have nothing to defend. We did all the research they asked us to do, brought back all the answers to their questions regarding safety and liability and we feel even better now about the playground than before they asked us to do the research. They (the parks and recreation) made us better, more knowledgeable people as a result of the scrutinization of the project.

Second, it creates hard feelings between entities that can do great things for one another. Believe me, these are incredible people that are involved in this Community Builders group. The sky is the limit and any entity that needs help with a project could benefit tremendously from this group. Remember, this playground is only the first project...imagine what we could possibly be doing next!!!!

If we continue to push back and forth with the Parks and Recreation with all of these "facts", it could get ugly and turn into a community divider...which is completely against what we came together for. We already have enough people attempting to do this in this community. It's just not worth it.

Let us move on and find a location that we can build the best playground this region has ever seen. Trust me, once this playground is built, and the other amenities around it, the community will be glad it waited patiently.

Steve Powell · Guru

Well, Randy, the boards decision is behind us now. Rather than waste energy and drum up any more hard feelings we've decided to move forward and concentrate our efforts on the next location. The letters to the editor that you've read aren't going to change the boards decision. And another one from me certainly won't change it either.

Unfortunately this playground wound up being a political circus that has created an ugly public battle. Something so positive should NEVER come to verbal blows like it has.

But what's happened is behind us and we feel very good about the possibilities that lay before us.

Stay tuned!

ranramsey · Veteran Member

....about the park, Steve.

Steve Powell · Guru

Nah, I've got better things to do with my life than bicker about mosquitos. wink

ranramsey · Veteran Member

Steve...a couple of great editorials in herald the last two days. Is yours next?

Steve Powell · Guru

Nah, I've had enough dimpled and hanging "CHADs" for one lifetime. biggrin

rwaitman · Senior Member

Steve Powell wrote:

Where ya been Randy? I've missed your insight and infinite wisdom.

Hey Steve...

Ha! Ha!

Insight....maybe, infinite wisdom...doubtful....after my recent feeble attempt during the election season to encourage some constructive discourse was so vastly misinterpreted, I have been trying to make no waves...or to at least limit myself to small ripples...

Not to say , that I won't get a wild hair and do it again one of these days...

I continue to read the posts with great interest and to watch the political games continue. Ain't it grand to live in a small community like this?

The election season has come and gone....the democratic process has once again successfully completed a cycle, and now we look with anticipation to the next one in two years, and/or four years...unless of course somebody wants to really get on a stick and talk about recalls.... ;o)

R

Steve Powell · Guru

Yep, I thought the exact same thing. Good questions...no kahonees. Keep your eyes on the Williston Herald. From what I've been told there's more to come.

I just hope people seek the answers to their questions before they start throwing letters out wiht harmful intent. Regardless of the outcome of the meeting I don't think that's the right way to go about things.

Where ya been Randy? I've missed your insight and infinite wisdom.

rwaitman · Senior Member

I just finished reading a very well written letter in the on-line Herald Guestbook with comments and questions relating to the new proposed park. The only down-side to the letter was that it was not signed.

I really wish the author had signed off on it. Since there is no name, it loses some of its impact. It was still an excellent post.

R.

Mica · Veteran Member

Well I should have known you have your ducks in a row. Nice job - DONT GIVE UP ON IT!! biggrin

Steve Powell · Guru

Thanks for the support Shayla. Everyone involved in this project from the Community Builders as well as the Parks and Recreation has placed the safety of the children as the highest priority.

Mica, thanks for offering your assitance. We have indeed contacted quite a number of references. Unfortunately the references that were called by the board referred to wood structures and not all plastic structures. But the Community Builders along with the Park Board did call several who had built with plastic and they were extremely pleased with the final product and had absolutely nothing but great things to say about the company.

Your input is much appreciated, Mica. Thank you very much.

Steve

Mica · Veteran Member

Steve,
Have you done any due diligence as far as calling any of the other cities that have used Leathers and asked them about maintenance, if/when they have warranty issues - how it was handled, and the other issues that have been brought up? Leathers has been used in Missoula, Florence, and I believe Clinton where I live and to my knowledge, all of these communities have been very happy with their work, as well as their attention to any warranty issues. Would it help you if I could find some contact information for people around here for you to call? I can tell you that our "Dragon Hollow" is a really wonderful addition to downtown Missoula and would be a great addition - and something completely different - to Williston.

SKM · Senior Member

-- Edited by SKM at 04:09, 2008-09-02

Steve Powell · Guru

Slette wrote:

Hello again everybody,

It has been a long time since I have either logged on or had any type of post but I feel the need to let people know my concerns on this project. They are only MY thoughts, no one elses.

I guess I would have to start with a small message to Kemper. I know you have your opinions like everyone else, but I just feel it is inappropriate to post about the "good old boys". Steve you are and will always be a friend but it seems to me that if anyone disagrees with YOUR opinion that they are a bad person or out to get someone. Just because myself as a member of the Williston Park Board has concerns about Leathers it does not make me a "wet blanket". Just as your liking them as a vendor doesnt make you one either. We are just two friends who have different opinions.

i also want EVERYBODY out there to know that the one thing I can speak for all the board members on is the fact that we think that this project is an awesome idea and we absolutely dont want it to just go away. That being said.

I have one, and only one concern with a Leathers playground.

Long term maintenance and replacing parts.

Five years down the road when a slide has a crack in it I would much rather call someone in Fargo, Bismarck,or Dickinson than try to call someone in New York that has forgotten even where Williston is.

That in a nutshell is my concern and is why I as a Park Board member could not second last nights motion. All of the Community Builders have put in so much time and effort into this and have done an awesome job. I just hope that we can come to a common ground to get it moving forward. If we dont worry about trying to find faults in other peoples opinions and work together it can be done.

Dave,
Thank you very much for checking back in. I've missed the dialogue.

Question...when a slide on a current playground cracks...do you
a. call the company and order the part and have them drive out to fix it?
b. call the company and order the part and have somone local (Brad) fix it?

Second question...does the Parks and Recreation really get caught up in "long term maintenance" considering the shape a number of the parks in this town are currently in? A comment that was made last night several times eluded to the fact that this is going to cost money to maintain. Well, we both know the equipment itself is going to be relatively maintenance free so it would be the grounds around the equpment that is going to cost money. But what makes the ground around a Leathers park any different than a commercial grade park? Why would maintenance of the ground around a commercial grade park be any less expensive than a Leathers park?

But I digress, the slide is warrantied. By building our park with structural and composite plastic, weathering and high use won't be the same concern as wood. I was irritated last night at the constant references to wood. I was really hoping that one of you guys would have quashed that talk early on. Eventually toward the end Bruce actually stepped up and reminded the other commissioners this wasn't a wood structure being offered. Dave, there were a lot of comments made by Darin that we had already found the answers to that refuted any negative things he had to say about the structure. I was frankly shocked that he brought them back up as though we never at any point discussed them.

I respect the scrutiny of something you guys are not familiar with and I appreciate the concern for safety. But I would really like to have heard a park board member say something like..."I motion that we grant access to the requested park land with the stipulation that we, the land owners, have the final look at the design and materials list, once completed, and have made any necessary adjustments or have deemed the materials or design to be in no way, shape, or form safe for play by Willistons children." At least this way we get a chance to put a design and a materials list together for you guys to look at. But for some reason, most of you were dead set against letting us get to that point.

And the comment that I thought was actually kinda funny...“Until we see what we’re going to receive as a gift, it’s no gift to us." Tell him I'll remember not to wrap his Christmas present this year. biggrin

Just kidding of course.

And the history of Leathers? Umm...thirty years of building these kinds of playgrounds. Don't you think that if their equipment was so terrible they would have gone out of business years ago? Wood parks are being ripped out, not plastic ones. And a bunch of those wood parks are actually being replaced by new Leathers parks. But those facts failed to be brought up last night.

But you know what? It's ok. I, myself am not taking any of this personally and hopefully you guys don't either. I received a nice email from Mr. Grondahl this morning, which I truly appreciated and again I'm very happy to see you posting here. He assured me that the opportunity to work with the Parks and Recreation is still open if we can somehow find a common ground.

We'll pursue another option that has approached us. If that doesn't work, we'll come back to you guys with something else.

Thanks again Dave.

Mommyof2 · Senior Member

Steve Powell wrote:
I'm right across the street from that lost...so you sounded stalker like! hahaha.....we must live pretty close to each other...crazy....

Actually I live 2 blocks east from that lot so I thought it would be nice for me to live closer to the park.

Sorry to freak you out. I'm certainly no stalker...but I am pretty good with finding information using computers.

Slette · Veteran Member

Hello again everybody,

It has been a long time since I have either logged on or had any type of post but I feel the need to let people know my concerns on this project. They are only MY thoughts, no one elses.

I guess I would have to start with a small message to Kemper. I know you have your opinions like everyone else, but I just feel it is inappropriate to post about the "good old boys". Steve you are and will always be a friend but it seems to me that if anyone disagrees with YOUR opinion that they are a bad person or out to get someone. Just because myself as a member of the Williston Park Board has concerns about Leathers it does not make me a "wet blanket". Just as your liking them as a vendor doesnt make you one either. We are just two friends who have different opinions.

i also want EVERYBODY out there to know that the one thing I can speak for all the board members on is the fact that we think that this project is an awesome idea and we absolutely dont want it to just go away. That being said.

I have one, and only one concern with a Leathers playground.

Long term maintenance and replacing parts.

Five years down the road when a slide has a crack in it I would much rather call someone in Fargo, Bismarck,or Dickinson than try to call someone in New York that has forgotten even where Williston is.

That in a nutshell is my concern and is why I as a Park Board member could not second last nights motion. All of the Community Builders have put in so much time and effort into this and have done an awesome job. I just hope that we can come to a common ground to get it moving forward. If we dont worry about trying to find faults in other peoples opinions and work together it can be done.

Steve Powell · Guru

Actually I live 2 blocks east from that lot so I thought it would be nice for me to live closer to the park.

Sorry to freak you out. I'm certainly no stalker...but I am pretty good with finding information using computers. furious

Mommyof2 · Senior Member

eeek.....steve......thats a tad bit freakky.......ok ok....MORE than tad !! thats just like....i dunno....stalker freaky! LOL

Steve Powell · Guru

Ideally we would put it on the empty lot next to the new house a block east from Subway.

Mommyof2 · Senior Member

Didn't much care for the idea of building it at the western star complex anyway. :) The idea of most kids in williston having to cross the by-bass to get there didn't sit well with me. As a mother of 2 (beautiful) kids, I'm so excited about the new park!! I hope you find a great location!!

SteveKemp · Veteran Member

The word on the street is: good ol boys club 1 - kids 0. Good thing the game isn't over.

Steve Powell · Guru

We were not granted permission to build a Leathers and Associates playground at the Western Star complex. There was a motion to give us the land but none of the other commissioners would second.

That is all for now. I will keep you informed when we take our next step.

Steve Powell · Guru

The initial location request is the Western Star Complex. If we are not granted permission to build there we have another request we can submit at another location.

Will keep you guys posted.

SKM · Senior Member

-- Edited by SKM at 04:08, 2008-09-02

Steve Powell · Guru

Just a "heads-up" to everyone to let you all know we'll be presenting an offer to the Parks and Recreation Board tomorrow night.

We, the Community Builders, feel we have come up with a solution that fits all the wants and needs of all entities involved. With the help of the Parks and Recreation we have been able to research and find materials that meet all the national standards for playground equipment safety.

We have found a way to build a playground that is insurable and is very low maintenance. We have found a way to build this playground through community effort with no liability risk to the Parks and Recreation. We have found a way to make sure that this playground can be designed, built, and inspected by professionals from Leathers and Associates, the Parks and Recreation, and a third party entity that hold national certifications who can make certain this playground will pass all safety requirements and will be accessible to all children.

There's one thing that has certainly impressed me about our Parks and Recreation through this whole process and that is that they ask the tough questions when it comes to safety needs of their public use facilities. They have made the Community Builders scrutinize every aspect of Leathers and Associates and have given us better vision when it comes to projects of this magnitude.

So, please everyone, keep your fingers crossed that after our presentation tomorrow evening the Parks and Recreation Board will grant us the space needed for this monumental event and will trust us to bring a safe and exciting new playground to our community.

Steve Powell · Guru

Sorry, that was from my Latin Scholar days. NOT!!!!

Still working on that page. Glad to see you're interested in checking out the "giving" part of the site.

Mica · Veteran Member

That is awesome, Steve! What language is the giving section written in? hehe

Steve Powell · Guru

Here ya go people!! The new Community Builders Website! Many thanks to Jeff Zarling and crew at Dawa!!

www.communitybuildersnd.com

Let us know what ya think!!

Steve

Steve Powell · Guru

We're at a "hurry up and wait" juncture right now.

We have proposed a playground that is unconventional by most parks and rec standards. It's not the "commercial grade" playground that they are used to. So they are leary of it's safety, understandably so. And in fact, that they have scrutinized our plans for this playground in the manner that they have really speaks volumes about their concern for the safety of the children. I respect them for that.

Ultimately, the safety of our children is our number one concern as well. Thus, we have set out to prove that the playground we wish to build will be constructed of materials that have been tested rigorously, and that the consultants that will assist with the build are all certified and won't leave until the finished product is as safe as any commercial grade product.

We have found a product that meets safety standards and have found a company that has been building safe "community built" playgrounds for 30 years in many different countries. It's now just a matter of convincing the North Dakota Insurance Reserve Fund and the Williston Parks and Recreation and P&R Board that this park is going to be as safe and as maintenance free as the commercial grade product they are used to.

Stork · Member

Does the old saying "no news is good news" stand true on the park or is it a bad omen??

Stork · Member

How was community builders meeting on Wednesday. Anyone hear?

Steve Powell · Guru

It's actually taking a turn for the better. We've made significant progress. We have a two step process at this point that will determine the direction we go with this park. We have put our preferred consultants to work on the requirements placed before us and we've made significant progress. I'll be sure to keep you guys posted with any significant news.

Thanks for inquiring guys!!

Jimmylikesvikes · Veteran Member

Steve,
How bout now? How is the park coming along now?

rwaitman · Senior Member

Hey Steve:

How is the new Community Park Concept coming along? An update would be welcome?
;o)
R

Steve Powell · Guru

Those are very good thoughts too. All are being discussed at this point. I do believe the Parks and Recreation has some plans for their outdoor pool.

We've actually had discussions at our Community Builders meetings to either reserve extra land for a splashground to build at a later date or to try raise enough money to go ahead and build the splashground next to the new playground right away.

Thanks for the input!!!

Lonewolf · Senior Member

Id like to see a water park, something like Sidney has, Maybe expanding the one in harmon park? Just a thought.

Steve Powell · Guru

We are currently in the process of taking the Parks and Recreations list of requirements to Leathers and Associates to make sure they can meet them. Once we have established whether or not they can meet them we'll either move forward with the project or we'll take a step back and look at the alternatives.

Thanks for the interest, Randy.

Steve

rwaitman · Senior Member

How is the new Community Park concept coming along? We wait with bated breath and great hunger to hear about the current state of the proposed park...

and in case either or both of my two kids are reading this...I want to make a point of noting this was written tongue-in-cheek, and I was being facetious....but actually, all joking aside....how's it coming?

;o)

Steve Powell · Guru

Awesome!! Thanks Mica.

That's really one of the most important parts of this project. Community involvement. We want to achieve this as a community, not just a "Community Builders" group. Something for Williston to be tremendously proud of.

Thanks for the link!

Steve

Mica · Veteran Member

Hey Steve, Missoula has done a couple of park projects that Leather has been associated with. Here is a link. It was a really cool project and our community was very involved.

http://travel.state.mt.us/categories/moreinfo.asp?IDRRecordId=13470&SiteId=1

rwaitman · Senior Member

Taking on a project like this will take a phenomenal amount of time and energy. But it is a worthwhile project, and it looks like you guys have the heart to see it through.

If you can work with Parks and Rec that would be great, but even without their expertise and support it would still be a doable thing.

If you can educate the general public, answer their questions, satisfy their apprehension, and mollify some of the doomers and gloomers, you can do just about anything.

The methodical approach you guys are taking looks to be the best bet. Do the homework, and even though some will not want to look past their own emotional perspective....I still believe that logic rules the day, or at least it dadgum sure should.

Actually, I guess, logic does not always win out, but you can still use it as a foundation for your decisions.

R

Steve Powell · Guru

That's a great question.

We've got a few entities in mind to bring this park to. The first and most obvious choice is the parks and recreation which we have begun working with. They have the land, the staff, the insurance, the bathrooms, etc... to take great care of this awesome gift from the community.

We are starting to work on all of the safety and maintenance requirements and will then procede with the location. We will also begin working on our goal budget which we hope will include enough to set aside money to pay for future maintenance. But we are building this park out of structural plastic and metal to keep any re-occuring costs to an absolute minimum once it is built.

The most important thing to remember is that this park is going to be privately funded and community built. I've heard from some of the Williston residents that they are worried this is going to raise their taxes to pay for it. Well, considering that the playground is going to be paid for by private donations, we won't have to worry about that. Like I said, once this is built there should be very, very minimal maintenace and we hope to have extra money set aside to keep up with re-occuring costs.

Whoever chooses to accept this gift will be receiving a playground like no other anywhere. It's going to be unique to our local resources. When the people of Williston get a chance to see the big picture of this park and everything it represents, I truly feel they will be very excited about it and will want to help build it.

Sorry, I'm rambling. I get excited talking about this project so just cut me off if I get long winded.

I hope to see you there too!!

Thanks for inquiring!!

SKM · Senior Member

-- Edited by SKM at 04:08, 2008-09-02

rwaitman · Senior Member

Exciting and Challenging times.....I have a vested interest.... 2 2/3 Grandkids living in Williston....

;o)

Steve Powell · Guru

Thanks Randy.
The Community Builders completely understand the obstacles which are moreso concerns. We are working hard to research these concerns to make sure we get this park right. It's going to be a tremendous asset to both the community and the youth. But if we build something that does not have the structural integrity or isn't as maintenance free as we can possibly make it, it's going to end up a nightmare for whoever takes it on. Plus, we have to make sure this playground is and stays safe for the children playing on it for many, many years to come.

The public information will start to filter out once we have found the location. We have started out with the Parks and Recreation and they have been gracious to take the time to work with us to establish the safety and maintenance requirements that need to be met in order to proceed. Once that step is accomplished, there will be a major marketing campaign that will hopefully get people excited by the thousands. The following is a link to some clips that give a good idea as to the process and emotion that comes from these builds. Pretty powerful. Scroll down to "videos" and download to your desktop. Should open with Windows Media player unless you have a different default .wmv viewer. Never mind the type of material used in these builds. We will be using structural plastic and metal for the entire playground.

http://www.leathersassociates.com/downloads.php

Thanks for the insight and the support!!!

rwaitman · Senior Member

I am still looking forward to more news about the new Community Park. I have talked with a number of people who are also very excited about the concept and want more public information.

We hear that there are obstacles rising from various sources. That is normal. You will find Doubting Thomas's for every project. So far, although I have heard several negatives, each one of them is manageable or solvable, and the balance is way more towards positive.

Location-doable
Money-raisable
Insurance-not a problem
Energy and initiative-Duh!

Go youngsters go....

;o)