Or as I like to say it..."Plop Plop Fizz Fizz Oh What a Relief It Is".
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Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. – Philippians 2:3-4
Science can purify religion from error and superstition. Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes. Each can draw the other into a wider world. A world in which both can flourish.
Really Steve. 80's and 90's we paid for the infrastructure. More corrupt people you could shake a stick at. When we were stuck with the bill,for Williston. Fargo and Grand Forks with the people did it and cried when Grand Forks got flooded. They always stick it to us.. now every Tom - Dick - and Harry want it. Living in the boondocks - what infrastructure. Why should I vote on it? Not saying I won't - Just saying I will pay...No pavement - My own sewer- - my own water well. Fargo and Grand Forks have always sucked the life out of us..But what you say is exactly what they said. Why should I trust You?
Thanks Vicki. I think this is more of a state issue though. Where it will affect Williston, I believe, is the point where the budgets are turned in and the representatives of each district have to plead their case as to why something in their budget is more deserved than some other districts. In this case Williston is screwed since our 2 representatives are outnumbered by Fargo/West Fargo's 14.
Good luck keeping up with infrastructure then.
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Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. – Philippians 2:3-4
Steve, I think people are sick to death of taxes. I also think living on 9th Street East, I paid more than the people on university avenue with brick houses. I paid my Specials upfront, and then took it to the assessor. I paid my taxes on time. They gave me a pile of paperwork and to have the lawyers to fill it out. I choose to get out of town. I am taxed out - they want - they want - they want....... Measure 2....Can't even think about it...Company and Personal taxes next. Measure 2...don't think I can vote for it, but Williston has to make their taxes Fair and they don't - or won't give a good explaination as to why cause they are a little busy or your not important enough or you they just won't give you the time of day. Williston is not FAIR in their taxation as far as I can see. Selby at the time gave Rik a formula didn't make any sence at all. That was the 80's 90's etc etc etc. Williston is not Fair how they do things. Sorry. Is there any wonder why Williston People are leaving Williston?
I've asked these questions here, on facebook, and in a letter to the editor. No one wants to answer my questions.
Are they that difficult to answer?
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Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. – Philippians 2:3-4
According to those in favor of Measure 2 the state has a constitutional obligation to pay for "the needs" of local government. If this is the case, who determines what "the needs" are? Or are "the needs" everything included in the local government budgets? And if that's the case, where does the spending end? This sounds like an open checkbook. Even though North Dakota is prosperous right now, we still have a limited amount of money. Once every budget is proposed from each district, what happens if the total amount from all districts exceeds the state's income? Who determines which budgets have to make cuts?
Perhaps I have this wrong. Perhaps there are restrictions on what "needs" the state covers. If this is the case, how does the state determine what's covered and what isn't? If Williston has needs to be met that aren't constitutionally obligated to be covered, ! and Fargo/West Fargo has needs that aren't constitutionally obligated to be covered, who decides which, if any, district gets the funding they need? Does it become a battle of Representitives? And if so, how is Measure 2 beneficial to the small districts/cities/counties?
I think the voters deserve a clearer picture of exactly how government is funded without property taxes in place. Give us a "real life" scenario that depicts budgets from local government to the state and how the state resolves conflicts that occur and also how "needs" are defined.
Prove this isn't a "big government" solution.
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Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. – Philippians 2:3-4
hahaha, thanks Sue. I was upset that I would let myself do that. I'm a grammar perfectionist normally so when I read it after I sent it I wanted to kick myself.
Thanks for sticking with the message board! Hope all is well!
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Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. – Philippians 2:3-4
Wow Steve what a great e-mail. I can't wait to have you on our side.
Everything you said up to yes but was right on.Call me anytime at
xxx-xxx-xxxx my cell. But lets put you to ease now. Lets take a pie a whole pie (the budget) 4 billion and growing. The state as all states have convinced schools, counties, cities, subdivisions, that the property tax slice is all ours and because they act like we are in control of leving them(that's were the thought of local control comes
from) we are not allowed to have any other piece of the pie. Measure 2 takes that pie and gives first to the schools,counties,cities, Wiliston will have their school and the 1.2 million needed for more police and fire. The state can't tell them here's your property tax slice that all you get. It goes away and now the state because a constitutional law makes them fully and properly fund any and all legal obligations first. It will not matter how many Representatives you have in Bismark.The constitutional law will protect everyone equally. what will happen is all special interest and higher education will be pushed to the back of the line. Maybe no more horse racing commission. How about the 200 million we give to out of state student to come to school here. They never stay. I'm really glad you wrote.
Please call me day or night anytime this to important and we need smart people to get the word out.
-- Edited by Steve Powell on Friday 2nd of December 2011 09:04:04 AM
-- Edited by Steve Powell on Friday 2nd of December 2011 09:10:15 AM
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Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. – Philippians 2:3-4
One correction - you used the wrong form of the word "there" when talking about the suitcase full of money. You would be looking for the word "their".. :)~~Just had to mess with you a bit. I just did a quick read and I think you have valid points here.
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Our ELECTED officials are our employees. These individuals asked for this job. We must govern our employees.
Now that the city sales tax issue has passed, it's time to start debating the Measure 2 vote coming up in June.
I'm going to c&p an email I just sent to Mr. Tuttle with the Empower the Tax Payer group. Give it a read and let me know where you stand on the issue. Here goes!
Mr. Tuttle,
I'm intrigued at the notion of eliminating a tax that is truly unfair in one sense but more fair than some realize in another sense. I do have some serious concerns however.
First off, a bit about my stance on the state and it's handling of its excess. I'm highly IRRITATED. The fact that Williston residents (obviously as well as all ND state residents) are imposed 5 cents by the state on every dollar spent here could have cost us a chance to eliminate our Parks and Recreation mills with the recent local 1 cent sales tax addition. More on this tax later.
I don't recall the exact figures from this past biennium, but I do know that the state raked in well over a billion dollars in state sales tax. I believe they raked in over 1 billion dollars in corporate and personal income taxes or at least close to it. Upwards to 100 million in gas and oil extraction taxes. And plenty more in property taxes. And looking forward, the state is now taking in 4 million dollars A DAY on our oil taxes which will make the next biennium numbers look flabbergasting.
I also know, according to email replies from Representatives Sukut and Hattlestad, that our state government increased it's spending the past 3 bienniums by roughly 25 percent each (give or take 2-3 cents per biennium). That's like finding a suitcase full of cash and claiming it as theres. They had more money than they could spend, yet they found a way to NOT give it back to the tax payer. Don't get me wrong, I know there are greater fiscal demands with the growth the state is seeing. But I don't believe it to be that much, AND I don't believe it's up to the state to come up with ways to spend that money. Give it back to the rightful owner and let them take care of their own problems.
That being said, understand that for the most part we see eye-to-eye on the majority of the fiscal issues taking place at the state level.
However, my concerns about abolishing property taxes revolve around state representation. As you know, the bigger the city, the more representation at the state. Williston has 2 representatives. The Fargo area has 16. I'm sure you see where I'm going.
Thus, if the property tax mills that are used to create the City of Williston budget cease to exist, how does Williston get it's funding to maintain that budget?
As it stands, Williston has to fight tooth and nail to get any kind of funding from the state. When we ask, people from Grand Forks and Fargo and wherever have to come ALL THE WAY TO WILLISTON just to see why we request the funding and why we do so in such an emergent manner.
Bottom line, I'm concerned that the vote coming this June is going to create a similar situation as the one I just mentioned. The big difference being that instead of having an existing local funding source we will now be in a situation where our city budget will be left in the hands of Fargo's\Bismarck's\Minot's\Grand Forks' representatives. I'm concerned that other smaller cities across the state are going to find themselves practically begging the state for funding to keep up with the rising demands for road repairs and such. And I'm also very concerned that allowing the state to control how the state sales tax is divied up amongst the districts is going to create a great divide between these districts and we will end up with a sort of "class warfare" where the smaller districts with less representation will gain an even greater amount of resentment towards the larger districts.
If there is a way, a formula that would keep the sales tax local, I could be persuaded to vote for this measure. I realize there are many districts in this state that don't have the commerce that Williston or Fargo has. The formula would be a little complex. However I believe it can be done. Here's an example...
The state relies on it's sales tax, gas and oil taxes, and corporate and income taxes (preferably in a scaled down amount). 100 percent goes to the state but the state then sends back 50 percent of all of those taxes back to each district. The amount each district retains is equivalent to the percentage of the total amount each district sent in. So if the state took in 100 million, 50 million would return to the districts. If district 1 accounted for 40 percent of the 100 million brought in, it would retain 40 percent of the 50 million being sent back.
Keep in mind these are merely numbers being thrown off the top of my head. I believe feasability studies would need to be run to sharpen these numbers. But I believe this would be very fair as the districts with little commerce would still be able to maintain a nice budget.
Here's another idea. If the state were to relinquish 2 cents of it's portion of the sales tax, each district could then choose/or not choose to add one or both of those 2 cents to it's local sales tax. We have then transfered control from big government to small government.
I'm starting to ramble now...sorry. At any rate, if you could ease my concerns and convince me that Measure 2 will not create the issues I have described you will have a great supporter in me. If you don't believe me, ask anyone at the Williston Parks and Recreation department. I was very vocal about the "Yes" vote for that 1 cent. I look forward to your reply.
Thank you for your time,
Steve Powell
Williston, ND
-- Edited by Steve Powell on Friday 2nd of December 2011 09:01:22 AM
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Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. – Philippians 2:3-4
Is there any wonder why Williston People are leaving Williston?
