Williston, ND Active Issues

Steve Powell · Guru

RE: Christmas or Holiday?

Tesla · Veteran Member

Everyone have a merry Pagan lights festival?

vko · Senior Member

I loved seeing the children sing and so proud of themselves. And so dressed up. What a Special Time. I can only say for me, Christmas is Christmas. And I feel, I do not have to answer to anyone about it. Have a Very Merry "Whatever" this Season is to you.

-- Edited by vko on Wednesday 22nd of December 2010 06:44:30 PM

Steve Powell · Guru

Tesla wrote:

you ever asked yourself?

why do I decorate an evergreen tree around this time of year??>

lol,

it looks a little weird to anyone who walks in...

and then try and convince them that you do that to celebrate Jesus?

at least admit the pagan rituals

Tesla, it is what we make it to be. Believe me, I've had my eyes open to pagan rituals by several 7th Day Adventists. I know full well about all of the days we celebrate that are considered "Pagan-istic". But these days are what we make them to be. Christmas is all about the "Gift of Christ". So we symbolize this gift by spreading love, good cheer, and "gifts" to others.

Having a Christmas tree is the norm so I don't think it looks weird to anyone despite having other things like nativity scenes in the same vicinity as the tree. In fact I'd be willing to bet that it would seem more weird if someone walked in to your house and there wasn't a Christmas tree.

Anyways, my whole point here is that it's up to you and me to make Christmas whatever we want it to be. I prefer to have fun things like Christmas trees and nativity scenes. But I also make sure that we emphasize the fact that we are celebrating something very special at this time.

Before we opened our family gifts recently I had each one of my children speak of why we were doing what we were doing. I guided them through their answers to make sure they had a very good understanding. I want to accomplish several things by doing this. So they know the true "reason for the season" and to make sure they appreciate whatever gift they get even if it's a package of underwear. biggrin

I will agree, however, it's important to celebrate Jesus 24/7/356 and not just this one time. It's amazing how packed the church gets on Christmas and Easter. wink

Sue Evans · Senior Member

CRAP!! I knew I forgot something. The plastic tree. hahahaha
I did get dressed though.

R Hill · Veteran Member

Tesla wrote:
No never have.
Really don't know anybody who thinks it's a little weird.

do you ever ask yourself ?
why do we decorate our bodies with clothes?
the answer is we were exposed to sin.
Now I think that trumps any pagen admitance.
I might admit about the pagen ritual but There is a little more admiting needed in other areas in our lives.
( I wonder if this should have been in To strip or not to strip. lol)
you ever asked yourself?

why do I decorate an evergreen tree around this time of year??>

lol,

it looks a little weird to anyone who walks in...

and then try and convince them that you do that to celebrate Jesus?

at least admit the pagan rituals

Tesla · Veteran Member

http://www.religioustolerance.org/winter_solstice.htm

it's not based in christianity...

CHRISTIANITY: Any record of the date of birth of Yeshua of Nazareth (later known as Jesus Christ) has been lost. There is sufficient evidence in the Gospels to indicate that Yeshua was born in the fall, but this seems to have been unknown to early Christians. By the beginning of the 4th century CE, there was intense interest in choosing a day to celebrate Yeshua's birthday. The western church leaders selected DEC-25 because this was already the date recognized throughout the Roman Empire as the birthday of various Pagan gods. _1,2Since there was no central Christian authority at the time, it took centuries before the tradition was universally accepted:

	Eastern churches began to celebrate Christmas after 375 CE.
	The church in Jerusalem started in the 7^th century.
	Ireland started in the 5^th century
	Austria, England and Switzerland in the 8^th
	Slavic lands in the 9^th and 10^thcenturies. ₃

Many symbols and practices associated with Christmas are of Pagan origin: holly, ivy, mistletoe, yule log, the giving of gifts, decorated evergreen tree, magical reindeer, etc. Polydor Virgil, a 15th century British Christian, said "Dancing, masques, mummeries, stageplays, and other such Christmas disorders now in use with Christians, were derived from these Roman Saturnalian and Bacchanalian festivals; which should cause all pious Christians eternally to abominate them." In Massachusetts, Puritans unsuccessfully tried to ban Christmas entirely during the 17th century, because of its heathenism. The English Parliament abolished Christmas in 1647. Some contemporary Christian faith groups do not celebrate Christmas. Included among these was the Worldwide Church of God (before its recent conversion to Evangelical Christianity) and the Jehovah's Witnesses.

most telling is this,

DRUIDISM: Druids and Druidesses formed the professional class in ancient Celtic society. They performed the functions of modern day priests, teachers, ambassadors, astronomers, genealogists, philosophers, musicians, theologians, scientists, poets and judges. Druids led all public rituals, which were normally held within fenced groves of sacred trees. The solstice is the time of the death of the old sun and the birth of the dark-half of the year. It was called "Alban Arthuan by the ancient Druids. It is the end of month of the Elder Tree and the start of the month of the Birch. The three days before Yule is a magical time. This is the time of the Serpent Days or transformation...The Elder and Birch stand at the entrance to Annwn or Celtic underworld where all life was formed. Like several other myths they guard the entrance to the underworld. This is the time the Sun God journey's thru the underworld to learn the secrets of death and life. And bring out those souls to be reincarnated." ₁₄A modern-day Druid, Amergin Aryson, has composed a Druidic ritual for the Winter Solstice. ₁₅

Tesla · Veteran Member

you ever asked yourself?

why do I decorate an evergreen tree around this time of year??>

lol,

it looks a little weird to anyone who walks in...

and then try and convince them that you do that to celebrate Jesus?

at least admit the pagan rituals

Tesla · Veteran Member

http://www.religioustolerance.org/winter_solstice.htm

CHRISTIANITY: Any record of the date of birth of Yeshua of Nazareth (later known as Jesus Christ) has been lost. There is sufficient evidence in the Gospels to indicate that Yeshua was born in the fall, but this seems to have been unknown to early Christians. By the beginning of the 4th century CE, there was intense interest in choosing a day to celebrate Yeshua's birthday. The western church leaders selected DEC-25 because this was already the date recognized throughout the Roman Empire as the birthday of various Pagan gods. _1,2Since there was no central Christian authority at the time, it took centuries before the tradition was universally accepted:

	Eastern churches began to celebrate Christmas after 375 CE.
	The church in Jerusalem started in the 7^th century.
	Ireland started in the 5^th century
	Austria, England and Switzerland in the 8^th
	Slavic lands in the 9^th and 10^thcenturies. ₃

Many symbols and practices associated with Christmas are of Pagan origin: holly, ivy, mistletoe, yule log, the giving of gifts, decorated evergreen tree, magical reindeer, etc. Polydor Virgil, a 15th century British Christian, said "Dancing, masques, mummeries, stageplays, and other such Christmas disorders now in use with Christians, were derived from these Roman Saturnalian and Bacchanalian festivals; which should cause all pious Christians eternally to abominate them." In Massachusetts, Puritans unsuccessfully tried to ban Christmas entirely during the 17th century, because of its heathenism. The English Parliament abolished Christmas in 1647. Some contemporary Christian faith groups do not celebrate Christmas. Included among these was the Worldwide Church of God (before its recent conversion to Evangelical Christianity) and the Jehovah's Witnesses.

I pasted specifically the reference to Christianity but the whole link is interesting,

I don't think Christ cares either way, the only thing he specifcally asked us to remember him by was by breaking bread, "Communion" do this in rememberance of me!!!

he didn't say exchange gifts or decorate a tree... in fact their are biblical references to avoid cuttting down a tree and adorning it such as the pagans.

DRUIDISM: Druids and Druidesses formed the professional class in ancient Celtic society. They performed the functions of modern day priests, teachers, ambassadors, astronomers, genealogists, philosophers, musicians, theologians, scientists, poets and judges. Druids led all public rituals, which were normally held within fenced groves of sacred trees. The solstice is the time of the death of the old sun and the birth of the dark-half of the year. It was called "Alban Arthuan by the ancient Druids. It is the end of month of the Elder Tree and the start of the month of the Birch. The three days before Yule is a magical time. This is the time of the Serpent Days or transformation...The Elder and Birch stand at the entrance to Annwn or Celtic underworld where all life was formed. Like several other myths they guard the entrance to the underworld. This is the time the Sun God journey's thru the underworld to learn the secrets of death and life. And bring out those souls to be reincarnated." ₁₄A modern-day Druid, Amergin Aryson, has composed a Druidic ritual for the Winter Solstice. ₁₅

Anyways,

I would think one of the Christian faith would be thankful daily in rememberance of ones Savior not once a year at a time conflicting with so much pagan history.

Steve Powell · Guru

So, the question that keeps coming to mind is....

Does Jesus really care when we celebrate his birth? Or do you think he simply cares THAT we celebrate his birth?

AND as long as we aren't worshiping the tree, what does it matter that we decorate a room with a decorated evergreen tree?

The "put Christ back in Christmas" means stop commercializing the season so much that we forget the "Christ" part of it.

St. Nicholas was a real individual. He was known for dropping bags of gold down chimneys. He did this to honor God. He died early December. Thus Christians have added the "jolly old fella" to the celebration.

Christmas is a very ethically diverse holiday, but it's origins are based on Christian history.

Tesla · Veteran Member

Pagans have celebrated the winter solstice forever!!!

if you take a look at "Christmas" the Romans forced Pagans and Christians to mix a holiday under Roman rule at the time.

http://www.mainemediaresources.com/mpl_christbirthdate.htm

anyways, I'm all for people celebrating however they want.

I get a little put off however by some people saying put the Christ back in Christmas, it was never such. The Roots of the paganism are very deep and obvious in this.

how is it honoring him to share a holiday with Pagan roots?

there is much to dive into on "Easter" as well...

R Hill · Veteran Member

I found this following article interesting in that it partialy states my feelings about Christmas
"Christmas is really about the love and faithfulness of God, who long ago, in the face of a sin-wrecked creation, determined that sin wouldn’t win. Instead, he made a promise to send the rescuer who would reclaim creation in all of its brokenness through his son, Jesus Christ. Christmas is the celebration that this promise was fulfilled, and the authority of heaven had once again come to rescue and repair what sin and selfishness had polluted.

And the rescue lives on, bringing restoration and purpose through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And it doesn’t look to governmental permission or acceptance from the scholars of academia for its place and power.

Christmas doesn’t need to fight any wars. Neither do Christians need to fight for Christmas to find a place. It found its place, just outside Bethlehem 2,000 years ago. And both the king and his kingdom continue to grow, bringing to reality the angelic proclamation of “glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased.” And when you see it that way, Christmas has already won the war."

David W. Hegg serves as senior pastor of Grace Baptist Church in Santa Clarita