Williston, ND Active Issues

Clarke · Veteran Member

RE: Sales Tax

Steve Powell · Guru

That was excellent, Jeremy! Very, very much appreciated.

I agree and truly believe this 1 cent is necessary.

Will the "Northwest Quality of Life" committee continue to exist from here on out? Will this committee be overseeing the budget somehow? Or is this a temp committee that will dissolve if/when the tax has passed?

I have researched the Greenplay company the Parks and Rec hired to research the needs and I am very impressed. Very glad they brought them in.

However, I am frustrated at the fact that the vote is taking place prior to their complete findings. I hate to drudge up the past but it's funny how that worked. We won't really know exactly what we're getting from the 1 cent tax prior to the vote. Practically the exact same scenario I was once in with them except they said no because they didn't know exactly what they were getting from me.

Nonetheless, Jeremy you did a great job putting the facts out there and I am grateful to you for that. My vote is yes and I feel anyone who reads this should consider the same.

-- Edited by Steve Powell on Monday 21st of February 2011 11:20:01 AM

jeremyscottw · Newbie

Here is some data for all of you:

I have been to most of the meetings with the Northwest Quality of Life Committee. It is the committee that was formed to come up with a plan for the additional revenue created by the 1 cent sales tax. It has a variety of people from thoughout the community on it.

The following numbers are with the addition of the 1 cent sales tax included in the 2012 budget: (these would also be for the following 4 years after that until the sunset of the tax)

1.     The Operations and Maintenance Budget would have a $373,000 increase in the 2012 budget. A Big part of it is the "Maintenance" part of it. We all know that this is needed.

2.     As listed in the Herald. There would be an increase in Capital Inprovements/Equipment Budget. 2012=$697,000 - 2011 (no 1 cent)=$45,000
This would include numerous other parks/projects that were not listed in the herald but would include all the parks in town. For complete list go to www.willistonparks.com/pennywise.htm

3.     Annual Reserve Fund:
$200,000 - Currently there is no Reserve Fund.

4.     Future Facilities Fund:
This fund would be set-up for anything collected over $2,500,000. This would be defined as any "new" park features, facilities, or assets to the park district.   The Park Board will use the recent survey results along with the master planning project to help in guiding them to what they assets might be.

Reasons to vote in this tax for the Williston Park District:

1.    12% reduction in property tax. This is written in the language for the measure and will happen upon being voted in.

2.    There is record taxable sales and is a great time to take advantage of it and create/fix numerous projects that can be an asset for many years to come.

3.     Williston is growing and the need for additional services and facilities will be among us in the near future.

4.     The Williston Parks and Recreation needs to rebuild along with the city. The timing is now to help rebuild our Park District. We can inpact the future now with a Yes Vote.

With a Yes vote, you will make an impact on the lives of all who live in Williston TODAY, and for the next generation of families that will call Williston home.

Top 5 reasons to Vote YES:

#5   Improve current Park District Facilities
#4   Help build future facilities for Williston
#3   Dramitically improve the Quality of Life in Williston
#2   Drop you property tax 12%
#1   Invest in the Future of Williston

Every generation wants to leave their park district/Community in better condition that it was given to them. This is an incredible opportunity to do just that.   Once accomplished, it will be a souce of pride in our Park District, City, and quality of life that it will help create.

I hope for a YES vote from all of you for the sake of our Region, our City, Our Families, and our Children.

Thank you for your support.

Clarke · Veteran Member

Steve

I wasnt at the meeting....bad time of year for me at work right now :)

I did just read the Herald article and agree that its a great start....but still alot of dollars not accounted for in my mind.

Keep the info coming guys.
JC

Steve Powell · Guru

Anyone here at last nights meeting? I wanted to go but had an installation to finish at Economart. Finished up at 9:00 last night.

I see the proposed line item budget for the first year in todays paper. Some good stuff in there.

Can anyone elaborate on what went on last night?

Steve Powell · Guru

Thanks for checking on that Clarke. Certainly is confusing. I spent a good amount of time on the state tax site and found that to be clear as mud.

Would be good information to know though.

Again, I just find it hard to believe anyone would fib about something like this knowing full well the numbers will be public record eventually.

Thanks again, Clarke!

Clarke · Veteran Member

The more I think about this the more I can't believe the numbers. There can't be THAT much sales of farm machinery and parts (exempt items) from within the city limits to provide this big of a descrepancy. It must be a timing thing - the state must be behind in paying out the dollars...which makes more sense to me.

Maybe I will call the state again someday :)

Clarke · Veteran Member

OK Steve.....I made the call to Kautzman this AM and I received some conflicting info compared to what the state told me....but whatever.

He says the city received 4.1 million last year for their 1%. There are some limitations on what the city collects compared to what the state collects. He said its in the law. ie)exemptions on farm machinery, parts, etc.

In my spare time I will try to look this up....not sure when that will be though :)

SO maybe they aren't fibbing us as much as I originally thought....you think one of the park board members could have commented or called to straighten this out...if they even know or understand this info.

Clarke

Steve Powell · Guru

I'm starting to see what you're saying, Clarke. How much was the school district getting?

Clarke · Veteran Member

Steve

Not that I know......
Call Kautzman and ask if there are any limits on what the city pays the P & R. I am pretty sure there isnt.

Clarke

Steve Powell · Guru

Are there exemptions in the guidelines for the potential 1 cent sales tax the P&R are pushing for?

If there are, would those exemptions bring the total collected down to roughly 4 million?

vko · Senior Member

Now that I can believe, Clarke. I pay nothing compared to the huge material sale and user. I can't wait to fill in my next sale's tax form. yawn

I am still feeling taxed out at this time of year. Sorry just had to throw my 2 cents in. Whining. smile

Clarke · Veteran Member

Steve

According to my call to the tax commissioners office....sales x 1% is the number of $$ that they send to the city. And actually she told me its the bigger sales numbers (sales & use) on that chart! I know...hard to believe!

In my talks with park board members they want to use the old numbers because of the boom....they are afraid when the boom goes away the $$ will too....which is correct. But at this rate they should have millions banked for a rainy day!! :)

I wish they would tell me the real numbers and just come up with a plan instead of himming and hawing about it....then maybe I will feel better about voting yes!

Clarke

Steve Powell · Guru

I have a hard time believing they would try to fudge on those numbers considering they will be public records. And it would be very difficult to hide millions of dollars. biggrin

There must be some kind of formula or something that would end up over my head. confuse

Anyone else know how that works? I believe they pull the sales of certain items from this which is what brings the grand total down. Don't quote me on that though.

1st Quarter = $198,697,412
2nd Quarter = $272,541,879
3rd Quarter = $346,444,903

Clarke · Veteran Member

Steve

I think you need to take a look at the REAL numbers...not the 2007 numbers that they are telling us about.

http://www.nd.gov/tax/salesanduse/pubs/

Look at the stats by quarter for Williston...doesnt quite add up to 4 million/year by my math :) It was almost 4 million last quarter!! :)

Clarke

Steve Powell · Guru

I have been discussing this topic with quite a number of people. Very interesting how opinions are differing on this. Those that are for it seem to be under the impression this tax will be bringing Williston a new Rec Center. Not too many talk about the upgrades needed everywhere else.

The common theme coming from those that oppose the tax is accountability for the large amount of dollars involved. What makes things more difficult in their minds is the fact that the books at the Parks and Rec are now showing in the black. The increased number of homes being built is bringing in more dollars from the levy thus giving the Parks and Rec more money. They have told me they would like to see what the Parks and Rec do with the extra money now before they give them the added one cent. All this even though they will pay less in property taxes. Leaves me a bit perplexed but perhaps all of those people plan on spending a boat load of money this next year. biggrin

My opinion on this tax hasn't been very popular with people I talk to no matter what side of the fence they are on.

I believe P&R should get the tax. However, I don't believe the money should be used, at least not right away, for a new Rec Center. Remember, they have to account for their existing budget. 1.7 million roughly is already accounted for. Yes, that leaves roughly 2.3 million for "other stuff". Well, as long as the "other stuff" doesn't mean padded pockets for the good folks at the Parks and Rec. wink

But, there is a ton of "other stuff" that needs to be taken care of before plans for any new building can be considered. The existing building needs a bit of a facelift. The stucco walls would be the first update. A beautification, so-to-speak, of the home base should be priority. Bottom line, even if a new P&R building is built, the existing building will still be used for something so we might as well make it look nice. Our existing parks seiously need to be upgraded. Newer and most especially safer equipment needs to be put in place at many of the parks. These parks are getting more and more use and our P&R are one serious injury away from a lawsuit. I know the next one won't be popular with some of you but seriously, give our t-ball through 12 year olds some real youth baseball fields to play on. The works, short porches, grass in fields, and pitchers mounds. Yes, it appears to many they already pour oodles into baseball. Not necessarily true. Boys baseball has it's own budget and hard working individuals in that group spend a lot of time and money keeping that program going. The last one I'm going to mention here is the athletic facilities. Truly need to get these up to speed. My personal biggest issue, though I don't use it myself as much considering I'm getting too old, fat, and slow is the gym floor. The courts themselves are fine, but the floor is scary. Would be nice to see a real court floor put down up there. I realize it would be difficult to maintain considering all the events they hold up there.

At any rate, I feel they need that tax to bring our facilities and our programs to a level we all want them to be at. I don't oppose a new building, it would be fantastic to have something like Dickinson has. In fact, I would settle at some point if they simply paved baseball fields #1 and #2 for parking and added on to the existing building. I just don't want to see it take precedence over their existing needs.

OK, there ya have it. My "not so popular" opinion of the new 1 cent tax. Go ahead and rip me. biggrin

stacyslap · Veteran Member

The Williston Parks and Rec website has a survey that you can answer questions and express your opinion if you're interested.

vko · Senior Member

Since I can't vote in Williston. Don't have much to say about it.. But, I have always felt, that once People get in your pocket's, they don't want to give it up and always have very important reason's why to keep it and maybe add to it. Just my Opinion - and have been taxed out for every justified reason. yawn And have not seen my property tax drop and if they did I don't know when. Tell me when and I will check, have my records.

-- Edited by vko on Monday 27th of December 2010 08:56:20 PM

Steve Powell · Guru

Some reasons why the sales tax is a good idea.

1. The money is there, let's take advantage of it.
2. There is a 5 year sunset and re-vote. If we don't like how it's been handled we can vote it out, to which they will add the mill back to our property taxes.
3. No denying it...the Parks and Rec badly need it.
4. It will drop our property taxes.

Add your reasons for why you think it's a good OR a bad idea.

Tesla · Veteran Member

"Ah, thanks for the info, Sue.

So then, where will the money for a new school come from?

"

hopefully not from my pocket!!!!

I think public/government run schools are a huge waste,

they do nothing but condition children to be pavlovian dogs for the government and not think for themselves....

http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/

Clarke · Veteran Member

Steve

Yes there is a "lodging" tax in Williston. Not sure of the details but I know that the Convention and Visitors Bureau is funded at least partially thru that tax money.

JC

Steve Powell · Guru

Does Williston have a "hotel" tax, or whatever you call that?

Steve Powell · Guru

Ah, thanks for the info, Sue.

So then, where will the money for a new school come from?

Sue Evans · Senior Member

Steve,
It is not legal for the schools to tax in this venue any longer. Williston was the last to be able to do this. The park board made it clear they would not settle for less than one cent.

Steve Powell · Guru

Some interesting comments coming from the Williston Herald articles on the new rec center.

I realize we're talking only a handful of people but could they possibly represent the majority?

This town does have some dire needs all the way around. Would we be better off going after sales tax money for the school district again? However, being there are more and more people coming to Williston we really do need more "quality of life" offerings that only the Parks and Rec can bring. Considering the amount of money 1 cent would bring to the P&R would it be feasible to give them .5 cent and .5 cent to the school district? Or should we simply let the 1 cent fall by the wayside?

Sue Evans · Senior Member

Sigma,
I understand about the funds for the city oil well/state claims to the oil...
I am wondering if you know anything about the Spring Lake oil agreement. I understood that one was rather fruitful. I know the commissions always plan for the future, I really have to wonder what their plans would be if there were an oil draw of which that property were to profit from.

Sigma · Veteran Member

Isn’t revenue from the city’s oil well being tied up by the State? I believe the State is claiming a right to the oil revenue because, per the State Constitution, all mineral rights under navigable waters in ND belongs to the State. So that’s not a solid source of revenue.

I agree 100% with Sue. I want to see the math, and a plan for using the funds. The monies would be better used to help out the crunch we’re seeing in our schools. Perhaps a new elementary school or something along those lines. I don’t, obviously, have good answers nor am I particularly informed about the policy nuances surrounding this sales tax. But I do know that we’re talking about a lot of money dedicated just for P&R, and with not apparent accountability, that concerns me.

Sue Evans · Senior Member

I want to see all the actual numbers posted.
1. Social Security and Insurance placed upon our property(removed or still assessed)
2. The Parks whole formula for their version of the "Star Fund"
    a. borders and boundries - who all is entitled to file for the fund?
    b. amounts of matching funds and total cap for the draw
3. The actual tax revenue realized
4. Other items that will not be removed from our property tax - special bond
5. The increase in tax revenue rec'd due to all the new building and property tax they have been collecting. (The increase in property and property values - not enough?)
6. Who will administer the funds
7. Will we need yet another group appointed just to watch over the funds/disbursements?
    Will these be paid positions with benefits to be assessed against Williston property?

What about using the lease money from Spring Lake?
My answer is still NO. Sounds like a lot of hype and I for one would like to know if this tax revenue would boost Dakota Fence in any way our property tax dollars have not already done.

Clarke · Veteran Member

OK...question for someone smarter than me.....

In the paper today Grondahl stated that if the measure passes the P & R would collect around $3 mil. Was this a misprint or am I misunderstanding something or maybe am jsut reading it wrong???

According to the ND Tax Commissioners website, Williston city sales in 2008 were around $700 mil and 2009 were around $600 mil.....can I not multiply (it is 1% right? not 1/2%) or is someone not giving us true numbers as my earlier post stated (which got no reply by the way).

Help me out....Larry? Krueger? Darcy??

-- Edited by Clarke on Wednesday 17th of November 2010 04:54:48 PM

Steve Powell · Guru

Thanks Clarke, now you really have my curiousity piqued!

NDGirl, the extra oil money translates into tax dollars brought in from the oil. We aren't seeing our fair share as far as extraction goes.

I will say this though, 1 cent on the dollar of what the city is selling these days is a bundle. 3rd in revenues in the state? Perhaps it truly is time to look at a new recreational facility? City has a well now just like Dickinson...right? Sales revenues far exceed Dickinson's...right?

Nah...I'm not holding my breath. Can't find people to work there. Would be a maintenance nightmare. How would we maintain it once the oil is gone?

Clarke · Veteran Member

Just happened to go a round with a buddy on Facebook about this exact topic this AM....maybe will post my thoughts here later......hopefully they will get us some more info soon on what they plan to do with the excess millions that they will have in the coffers if this passes.

NDGirl · Veteran Member

I will throw my opinion in steve. I wish we had a vote in the matter, but my family lives in the country and will have to do what the city people vote on. My thought is to take some of this extra oil money we are getting and put it toward fixing up the parks. The community was great at banding together for the new playground equipment for the kids, and I think it's great what our communty was able to do. I do not think that we should keep the extra tax, but then again, we need the money to come from some where

Steve Powell · Guru

Be ready everyone. The sales tax vote is coming.

It's awesome that the school district was able to pay off their bond in short notice.

Now it's time to start discussing our thoughts on the Parks and Rec's inheritance of this one cent tax.

If you don't mind I'd like to hear your thoughts on the issue first. I'll put my 1 cent biggrin

in as we go along.

Anyone willing to play? Is anyone still out there?