I agree, find an easy way to let them in, let them work & earn a living, keep track of them, and kick their asses out if they break the law.
FYI, a drunk driving illegal in a stolen car smashed into my friends' guest bedroom last year. He got arrested, but we could never find proof that he got deported.
Ultimately, we need a change in strategy. Our policy both towards drugs and to the Mexico border isn't working. Hillary is in Mexico saying the same old thing, we need to "curb our drug use" blah blah blah. I'm not saying I have the exact solution, but what we're doing ain't workin' so it's time to seriously consider alternatives such as guest worker programs and limited legalization of some drugs.
Hang on a moment...Are you saying you said you seen these document when you infact didnt? And yet you signed your name to a document stating that you did? If so you realize the repercussions that could have? Im Not against immigrants coming to the US to make a better life for themselves...I am against them doing it illegally! I dont care if your from Iran... you need to do it legally. And if backround checks involve that...Too BAD!!!! WHAT about MY RIGHTS to live in a safe and sound envronment? WE dont matter? All you that back the NAACP, wouldnt even have it with out the brave men and women who fight to gave you the right to have it!! Yet you call them war mongers and worse!! Shame on YOU!! Personally, I think most liberals love the Blame Game... ITS ALL YOUR FAULT...enstead of pullilng themselves up by the"bootstraps" and doing something about it!! Sissy La La. NO you come here legally or don't come here at all!
-- Edited by SKM on Monday 16th of March 2009 03:00:39 AM
I do not expect the governments to keep people out - I expect governments to follow their own laws. California police will not report people without green cards to ICE when they find a illegal aliegn. And their are a few others. We are fighting within our own states. We as citizens follow laws.. why are not the States and their govenments. I know this is a generalization. But I know I dang well better have my ducks in a row when I get a letter of the State of ND or the IRS. Most of the the time I put something in the wrong row or added wrong. But it does get my attention.
Yes CKCollings. I agree 100% with that. These people need a easy pass but if they commit a crime we also need a way to keep them out. Too many US families have lost their loved ones due to illegal people driving drunk. And more than once these same people have been picked up before they killed someone's love one.
Oh Phooey Jib. We have a Business in town. If I get out of line I have Workers comp. - ND Job Service - ND Sales Tax - And the Secretary of State on me. It is the Govenments of other states that allow this....to appease the Rich and most of them have a Senator or Congressman in their Pocket. And most of them are Border States. Oregon included.
California - Texas - Arizona also depend on these people for very cheap labor - Had relatives next to the borders and they laugh at us for spending what we did. 25 years ago.. How do you think the Rich Californians got their drive ways - beautiful homes - pools etc etc. We are to blame for happened here in the US..We have allowed it and still do. And us ND's as the relatives used to say...don't know nothing. This is how you do it... If you think the border's are going give up their cheap cheap labor for the rest of the country - think again - they just want the rest of the country to pay to protect their butts. And while we are at it - lets pay for Pelosi to have the air force to take her back and forth to make sure the Mexicans are doing her bidding. I had relatives in Kerrville Texas - San Diego - Los Angles- Las Vegas. So no wonder we will give the Mexican's whatever the Elite want.
Isn't that the American/capitalist way? Create your business and find the cheapest way possible to run it.
Is it worse to outsource your employees to Bangladesh, India, and Afghanistan and pay them $1 USD/day.... or to hire individuals already here in the US and pay them minimum wage?
Capitalism... "ain't" it grand?
__________________
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -Dr. Johnson
In my opinion, human trafficing is one of the more disgusting parts of the whole cartel/drug trade. TX Gov. Perry seems to agree with me. He's recently announced an initiative to combat the issue. I hope it helps.
That all being said, human trafficing is where the drug trade and illegal immigration meet. The vast majority of humans traffic'ed are women and they are generally enslaved into prostitution.
Because of the high risk involved in crossing into the US, would-be immigrants often enlist the help of "coyotes" (puts a new spin on the WHS mascot) who are people that supposedly have the "know how" to cross the border. Coyotes have terrible reputations for being opportunistic and exploitive at best and human smugglers at worst. There's no doubt that the same people that smuggle drugs also smuggle humans. Not all Coyotes are in business to enslave their "clients" into prostitution, but some percentage most certainly does.
So here's the scenario, back home in Mexico grandma gets sick and the family needs money. 19 year old Juanita decides she's tired of making 50 cents an hour cleaning houses in Guadalajara, and that she'd rather make $5/hour cleaning houses in the US. He cousing knows a guy that knows a guy that can get her across the border safely. So she meets up with him and they work out some arrangement. Then, he realizes he can make some extra cash off this cute young girl, so he calls his boys up in Texas and they put her on the fast track across the border and much to her suprise, she ends up chained to a wall in some house in Houston servicing the scumbags there. Well, you get the picture.
So, what if it were easier to cross the border to come and work in the US? Perhaps she just fills out an application and gets a temporary guest worker card. Then she just drives or flies across, gets a job, works for a year, wires money back to Grandma in Mexico then goes home. No Coyote, No Slavery.
My point is, building walls and whatever else to stop people from crossing into the US, is pointless. It's like trying to stop water from flowing downhill. So long as someone in Mexico can make 10X more in the US than at home, no wall or number of guards will stop them from coming. What we need is an immigration policy that matches the needs of the US market.
My folks live in California and they hired a company to do there lawn (mow and weedeat, fertilize..ect) because this company was recommended and they happened to be Hispanic. I don't know if they were illegals or not, but only one spoke English and the really funny thing is....they stole my dads beer out of his back yard cooler. LOL we thought it was funny as heck! I mean...hey... who could resist a ice cold beer on a scorching hot day? From then on my Dad always left a 6 pack of beer in the cooler for them. And they always did a great job. I know this has nothing to do with this topic...but I just had to share that.
California - Texas - Arizona also depend on these people for very cheap labor - Had relatives next to the borders and they laugh at us for spending what we did. 25 years ago.. How do you think the Rich Californians got their drive ways - beautiful homes - pools etc etc. We are to blame for happened here in the US..We have allowed it and still do. And us ND's as the relatives used to say...don't know nothing. This is how you do it... If you think the border's are going give up their cheap cheap labor for the rest of the country - think again - they just want the rest of the country to pay to protect their butts. And while we are at it - lets pay for Pelosi to have the air force to take her back and forth to make sure the Mexicans are doing her bidding. I had relatives in Kerrville Texas - San Diego - Los Angles- Las Vegas. So no wonder we will give the Mexican's whatever the Elite want.
And where does the Human trafficing from Mexico to here fit into these two catagories. They find many in a house held as prisioners. And the women are prostituded (sp) off. And they blackmail the families from to Mexico to pay to keep their family members alive.
There are 2 issues being discussed in this tread as if they were one. The first is regarding the drug related violence that is mainly in the Mexican Border towns, and the second is about illegal immigration into the US from Mexico. These are 2 separate issues, with perhaps a very small amount of interrelation.
I live in Texas, and for my job I frequently cross into the border cities of Texas & Californina. I've got a pretty good feeling for what's going on down there.
1) There is no denying that the violence in the cities on the Mexican border is escalating. This is because a couple years ago Mexico elected a president - Filipe Calderon - that vowed to fight the drug cartels for control of his country. Up until then, for many many years that cartels WERE the government. Now the Mexican Army is actively engaged in waging war on these cartels and not too suprisingly, the body count has escalated, dramatically. There have already been 600+ people killed in Ciudad Juarez (across from El Paso, TX) in 2009 alone. It is a very difficult time for them right now. So far suprisingly little of this violence has spilled over into the US. I suspect that this is intentional for, there is very little for the cartels to gain by raising the ire of the average US citizen. They are content to fight their battles "in another country" which frequently is quite literally footsteps (really, just a few hundred yards) from the US border.
Also, don't confuse going on a vacation to Cancun or Cozumel to crossing into Reynosa etc. If someone gives you a vacation to Cancun, take it! These cities are safe, as safe as any city is anyway. And if you are too scared to take it then just give it to me and I'll go!
Ultimately the entire conflict is due to the US market demand for illegal drugs. Until we curb our demand for the product, it will come from somewhere, regardless of the body count. Makes me seriously wonder if legalizing some drugs might not be a better approach. At least it would be regulated. Though, I'm sure it brings with it a whole other set of problems.
2) Illegal immigration has little to do with the drug war. Sure, a good number of the cartel members are in the US illegally, but 99.9% of illegal immigrants simply come to the US to work. They do jobs that US workers are usually unwilling or unable to do. They can make $1/hour cutting grass in Mexico, or they come to the US to cut grass for $10/hour. As long as that wage discrepancy exists, there is no wall in the world big enough to stop illegal immigration. The US must work with Mexico to find a way to bolster and grow that economy. Until it becomes more like Canada (economically) and has wages on par with those in the US, they will just keep coming. You will never stop them. That is why we should have a guest worker program, not a big stupid wall.
I clearly differ with my fellow republicans on these 2 issues, but I feel I'm reasonably qualified to discuss them. You can have your "ideal" & "philosophical" approaches to solving these problems, and we will continued to get the results we've always gotten. A poor Mexico and a flood of illegal immigrants. Or we can try to do something that might actually work. 'Cause it ain't workin' now!
i am not afraid of the drugs.. for me nor my son... maybe if he has a child... I am afraid ---we are all too willing to allow people in our borders... that will cut my son's throat or grandchild for a car - a buck or two - or a night or two in his home..It's not about the drug it is about what do YOU have that THEY can take... I am again sorry people get stuck on Meth... I know a few..Seen It ... I cannot protect a person from THEMSELVES.. But if you think - this US is going along - going along in a sing song way...you are very mistaken. We are very much in trouble. I wonder when the parents are going to stay around to make sure their wonderful children quit exploiting themselves on the internet..phones ...etc etc. And now I have to tell all you... I can shoot a gun... I do not hunt - I do allow sportmen to hunt... I will never kill an animal unless I have to.. My Horses and dogs are put down by Vets... I just know I will always know within myself what I have to do, under circumstances.
And how do you protect our borders from the one's that have always went back and forth...with drugs. What do you do about this.. It has become more bad people coming than good. ...
If it's drugs you're afraid of, then ND should be sequestered from the rest of the country since there is quite a bit of methamphetamines that get manufactured and distributed out of ND...
If drugs are the biggest issue here (which it obviously isn't), the US needs to focus it's "drug war" within the borders of US first.
__________________
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -Dr. Johnson
And how do you protect our borders from the one's that have always went back and forth...with drugs. What do you do about this.. It has become more bad people coming than good. I am sorry the younger generation never learned how to care for their young with out money. I did from my parents and grand parents..I showed my one and only child...Hopefully it sunk in. They went through the depression and had to.. Our young children have not a clue. No one ever taught them and most likely never will. Other Countries had to and here they come. Peace Peace - Lets all Get along - be tollerant all works for us .... Until we are over come by other countries. And then who's the idiot.
My Husband's Grand parents and Parents came here from Greece.. Legally..They taught themselves how to speak English. My Grandmother came here from Norway. They also did it the right way.... I will not allow any Dog nor Person to Bite me - at anytime for something they want that I have. Still If the Dog tries to Bite me or Kill one of my dogs... He is dead. The ball is in his court.. You either do it the right way or you are punished. Something alot of people have lost or never learned. And tell me how do you protect the Borders of the US when you are thrown in jail for Protecting your Borders... Back to our Wonderful - In Their Pocket Leaders..
I know it is awful. One Senator was defending his earmark today on Mexican workers in USA today... and would not acknowledge about if a Mexican crosses the border illegally that they broke the law..Our own Senator's and Congressman are selling us down the road.. Half of them are so dang old - they can't possibly be in their right mind. We absolutely need a clean sweep of the White House.
Oregon included. 
