Does anyone understand the Bail Out - how it has changed many times over - and Every Big Company and their dog is Changing so they can cash in. I can not follow it as it changes too fast. Anyone?????
yeah, minnesota did vote in vetura. know why? he talked one hell of a game how he was going to straighten up the government. And enough people wanted a change. I happened to live there at the time but was unable to vote, either forgot to register or i was workin 18 hr days over in across the river.
Anyways. thanks for the input from all about contacting the state reps from good ole north dakota. personally right now I am not thinking i want to retire back up there. but then again i have quite some time to go. but things could change. or I could try the mountains here in colo.... who knows.
UGH.... Dorgan with that nutter Al Franklin....next well see Conrad skipping merrily down the street with that nutter Fienstine from California!! The Liberals in Minnesota dont know what is good for the state!! Heck, they voted in Jesse Ventura. What a joke!! I don't understand how, in this day and age, anyone can be soooooo ignorant. And here is one of our Senators being buddy, buddy to Franklin. Yeah, he gets my vote....NOT.
Gundo, I emailed Senator Dorgan with my question on Estate Tax and who stands for what Rep. vs Dem. He actually wrote me back.. I was surprised. And happily... But disappointed when I Saw Dorgan tonight with Al Frankin in Minnesota.... Bail Out - and Debates..Who knows alot of confussion .
But Bruce, don't you think your ideas can possibly be contagious? There have been thoughts and ideas from this very board passed on to city government officials that have been very good thoughts. A message board like this one can be a vehicle for promoting progressive ideas. Just because you don't live here doesn't mean your ideas can't benefit those of us still in North Dakota. So thanks for putting your thoughts on the board...I know I appreciate them.
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Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. – Philippians 2:3-4
Gundo, I call Dorgan Conrad, Pelosi, Boxer Fienstien.. the last three cause i live in california. .the first two cause i am a native North Dakotan and want to preserve ALL of america.. I could envion retiring IN North Dakota and want to make sure those two politicians keep AMERICA in mind when they vote on the floor of the House and Senate.
When a bank pulls your credit for a car or home deal....they do look at your credit card debt. It shows everything from how many days late you are on current loans, how many time a company has pulled your credit, who pulled your credit....etc
I agree with it is more than one person's resposibility on who and what went wrong. Unfortunatly for the people who did absolutely nothing wrong will have a harder time getting loans without money down.
I'm not so sure about that Gundo. Maybe they will listen to you. You still have a say in what goes on in your homestate. Who knows, you may move home one day. I care about what you think so why wouldn't Dorgan and Conrad.
Just for another opinion, I think that your statement of "nicely stated" was just that. A statement letting someone know you agree with them. Why does so much have to be read into everything someone says. Or doesnt say. Why cant someone just answere a question or make a comment without being attacked.
Myself, I think that is most of the reason this issue page has slowed down so much. People just want a place to discuss issues, not get into a personal war of words.
Thats my opinion and its my right to have it,
PS nicely stated Gundo
I completely agree with your sentiments that we shouldn't have to worry about being attacked for putting our point of view on this message board so please don't take the following as such. This is merely a continued discussion on this subject and then I will move on to my opinion on the bail out.
What good is a message board if all we say is...good point...nicely stated...etc...?
Dave, you're a commissioner on a public board. How far would your meetings get if all you ever said was, "nicely stated?" These discussion threads survive through substance. Fortunately we have that, but I don't believe this message board slows down just because we expect substance. I'd like to encourage people to backup their reason they agree with something and to be able to do it without being beaten up...as you stated.
Now, as far as the bail out goes, there's certainly plenty of blame to be passed around. Blame it on our culture, perhaps. Through the years we've become a society so eager to have everything and in BIG fashion that we are willing to risk our financial future just so we can LIVE LARGE. Take a look around. Even the issues Williston faces as a growing city are proof of this. Big houses being built by very young adults rather than first securing their future. The clamoring for major shopping outlets so we can buy, buy, buy. The toys and vehicles we see all over the place. We live in a spend, spend, spend...borrow, borrow, borrow society and the banks are letting us do it.
This is a very difficult issue politically. We conservatives don't want government getting involved in our lives yet without regulations the banks can give as much money as they want even though they know the risks of these situations exist.
Personally, I would not have bailed these people out. The economy would have struggled worse for some time but we always manage to pull ourselves out. Not to mention I could have picked up some properties in some of the bigger markets for much, much less money than they already are.
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Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. – Philippians 2:3-4
Thank you for your kind words dakotadj and putting what I was trying to say better than I did.
And Jibslider I just know they showed my father papers saying they were from a government that comes in before the Sand Diggers do. (I think there has to be permits to Bismarck for this work) And they were from Bismarck. Your words (these days) kinda tells me something. My dad was a Stewart of the Land..he took care of it better than any Group or Government. He took care of the wildlife too.
I have no answers one way or another about the bail out just know the ball is rolling and we actually in all honestly don't have much to say about it. Why?
Just worried about my extended family and their little ones. And yours too. Bless you both and keep it up to be in everyones face about your opionions.
You can both get your points across clearly and precise.
I'm pretty sure it was not Sierra Club members that came to your farm to search for artifacts. The Sierra Club is a grass roots member based group that mainly works legislatively (these days) to further environmental conservation. I should know, I've been a member for 8 years... my father, a current Willistonite has been a member for 25 years.
To further diverge from the topic at hand, American politics is dominated by "special interest groups": environmentalists, oil exploration advocates, pro-educational groups, health care reformists, etc.
Dj, I am not an economist and have had little training beyond basic microeconomics, so I can not and have not hinted that I have a solution for the recession. Also, just because I am finishing up my last year of school doesn't make my views or stances any stronger or weaker than those out of school.
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"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -Dr. Johnson
VKO, You have hit it on the head with your comment. " I will never walk away from a person who needs my help.... But will from people who EXPECT my help".
A Great analogy to say the least. I won't even go where I was going too... You speak for the majority of American citizens. Not for ALL, but for the majority, is my bet.
God Bless what your Father stood for!! Thank you for standing up for what your Father believed in and for protecting his naivety to the unscrupulous organizations stifling our country and economy... OH by the way, this tooo is directly related to where we find our selves with the Bail Out..
I got tired of protecting my dad and his farm that he developed from Special interests and other people. Thank God he doesn't have to deal with this anymore.
Just a note. He had a Sand Pit here at his farm. On a Sunday 3 people came to inspect to make sure there was no artifacts there. (By the way if they would have found any - no Pit. No Grazing No Farming. He was 80 Years old and as a gentleman he said sure go ahead and look... He mentioned it to me and "I said no govenment in our area works on a Sunday". I called a person in Williston on Monday and then Bismarck they knew nothing.... It I think was the Sierra Group... I am sick of Special Interest Groups - and Tired of people in other Borders thinking what is our is there's... I will never walk away from a person who needs my help.... But will from people who EXPECT my help..
There is a difference.
This is just a little farm. I see the same on our Borders. Just Worried.
JB why would you put me in the "McCarthy -like prototype". That would be your interpretation of some words I put on a blog. Does the fact I don't appreciate people sneaking into my country and applying for home loans and all the other things that come with illegal immigration make me an Elitist. You have no idea what compassion and sympathy and regard for human beings I have. For you to question "I don't understand" is pretty elitist in my opinion, but then again your still dwelling in the academic world which tends to be "on the left" ( in my humble opinion)
In regard to the countries mentioned. I should have made my statement with more clarity. You my friend (pardon the McCain’ism) would not have the "LIBERTIES" you so cherish in this country, let alone the financial opportunities if you lived in most of those areas I wrote of. That was all my point was. What makes you think YOU understand the plight of the illegal immigrants and I don’t? Some of my best friends snuck across the border to better their lives. I am married to a Mexican!!
I won't get over it JB, people who wreck my country (sub prime loans) (sneaking into my country) should not be allowed to continually tear down the fabric of our country. If you don't think Illegal immigration is tied to the sub prime mortgage issue, I would beg to differ with you.
JB. What’s your solution to the economic crises the world now faces? What’s your solution to the hoard of Illegal immigrants continuing to flock to our country?
Now that I have labeled you a "left wing Liberal" and you see me as a McCarthiatic Elitist we can move forward.
I have always found it a little odd that when you apply for a loan for a house a new car that the only thing the bank is worried about is how much money you make in a year. Not so much how far in debt you're already in with credit cards and what not. To me, that is just as important as how much you make. Absolutely we need to be responsible enough to know that we can make a monthly payment on top of already mounting debt, but if a bank can look into credit card payments and an individuals entire debt, a lot of people would be turned away before such a silly purchase is made. I don't know...just silly I guess.
Please let's not let those with their McCarthy-like conjured up fear of people they don't understand hijack this thread. The topic is "The Bail Out", not how "illegal" immigrants need to be carted up mob style like the Japanese were during WWII.
All the elitism quoted by dj makes me a little ill inside. I'm happy to be an American, but I don't think I have anything to tout about over the fine people in Canada, Mexico, France, or the people that live in the many countries of South East Asia. Get over it, we all live on one planet.
God bless all man-kind, including all men and women of the military... let's not let God bless the war though.
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"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -Dr. Johnson
Yes!!! Finally, we are talking. Slette, I was not attacking Gundo in anyway...I just wanted to know is opinion and I got it and it was great!! I find it crazy that we are now having to pay yet again for others!! And DJ is sooooo right. Did you know that like 90 percent of the homes sold in California were to ILLEGALS. Please dont quote me on that number, but if you ask me 1 percent of homes sold to Illegals is 1 percent too many. We all need to take responsibility for our own actions. And I think we need to vote out the elected officals that are in there now. They too have not been doing their jobs. All of them have dropped the ball.
its a combination of both Jibslider... You and I know when we are in over our head and when making a stupid decision we live with the consequences. The politicians have provided a "social system" to protect those "less than fortunate" individuals and require that the government LOWER the standards to ensure that ALL people are afforded the opportunity to buy a home.. We may have voted them in, but we can vote them OUT. Its more than the bail out of the mortgage dilema, its securing our borders (don't get me started there) . well, come to think of it . alot more than necessary; of the bad loans are from "people who do not have proper identification" or proof of a job!!!... We NEED to point our fingers at the IDIOTS who knew that these people could not pay for their mortgages. They packaged the deal, made their money and pushed it down the pipeline (pardon the northdakota pun) to me immersed with some other money bundles and then THAT IDIOT made his money (USING YOURS) oh by the way , i heard today its not money in our 401K's we lost. it was the prospect of making money. All that being said. GOD BLESS AMERICA and GOD BLESS OUR FIGHTING MEN AND WOMAN. We can be thankfull we are not citizens of IRAQ, AFGAHANISTAN, FRANCE, North KOREA, CHINA, South East Asia, and it goes on and on ..
So YES the politicians are more to blame and were to blame for not keeping them honest.
Gundo "Nicely Stated" to say the least. now if you call Dorgan and Conrad, I call Boxer and Fienstein and tell them were tired of THEM PUTTING US in this precarious situation. I dump it on THEM. and vote THEM out if they don't ring YOUR bell enough times.. Call them, email them . have your talking points and give them YOUR expectations. they will flood you with a plethra of BS about how they are so wonderful and standing up for you.. the AVERAGE voter has NO clue and just votes for the same old INCUMBENT. Stir the pot, get them thinking at least about what they are doing . I am sick of COMPLACENT politicians. YOu are accountable, our kids are accountable, lets make THEM accountable... If they keep up with this Like i told my brother, I will be selling eggs outside of Hanks and living in an old refurbished coal mine and working like my grandfather did to survive when he homesteaded.. You know .come to think of it, that may be better than living in southern california in about six years.. Every complaint here should be cut an pasted to your senator and representative, your govenor, your attorney general and local government..
i echo your statement. Although, I am furtunate to have dug myself out of most of the the debt I have imposed upon myself twice. i am gracious to be earning a good living while remaining clean and hitting keys.
i too have felt the effects of downsizing and economy ebbs and trends. once in 2003 and watchin a good job go overseas do to offshoring of tech jobs. and being put out again in 07.
skm has asked who is to blame? its a combination of alot of bad decisions that were made at a time when cash was readily available to fund such bad decisions without any one specific person taking any blame.
who's to blame? the person who took out the loan they could not afford in the first place
The company approving the loan(which they made a commision on)
The banks for not verifying if someone could afford.
The federal government for letting a capitalistic economy do this to itself.
A society that tells people they can walk away from a responsibility
investors who saw nothing but dollar signs
companys that thought of sub-prime/interest only loans
Individuals who signed up for such loans because the "NEEDED"/"WANTED" the huge house
ourselves for turning into a mostly CONSUMER society
I know i am missing a bunch here, but i think you get the point. It is not just one person.
Just for another opinion, I think that your statement of "nicely stated" was just that. A statement letting someone know you agree with them. Why does so much have to be read into everything someone says. Or doesnt say. Why cant someone just answere a question or make a comment without being attacked.
Myself, I think that is most of the reason this issue page has slowed down so much. People just want a place to discuss issues, not get into a personal war of words.
That's it Gundo? "Nicely stated"? I want to hear your opinion. Who and where do to think the responsibility lays? Be honest. Do you think its fair that someone buys a house for 300,000 and they cant make the payments...so we through our taxes pay it for them? I WANT to KNOW. Do you feel that is fair? We All need to start talking about this!! And STOP skirting around the issues for fear of being Politically Incorrect!!! WE are the people, of the people and for the PEOPLE!! We are NOT...OF THE PEOPLE for the FAT CATS in WASHINGTON and WALL STREET!! I want to hear it!! If you feel its a good thing...I want to hear it!!! Tell me why!! Not just nicely stated!! Why in your opinion is it Nicely Stated!! I may not agree, but I still want to hear your opinion!!! What are we cowing down to!!! Fear!!!? Where has PERSONAL responisbility gone to!!? Some one TELL ME!!! EVEN ME!! Where does my responisbality come and go? Lets talk. All of us!!
That is the magic question SKM, and if we could peg a solitary scapegoat I assure you we would have done so already. Let's face it, our economy is built on credit and trust and both have gone out the window as of late. The problem is not just mortgages, just think of all the goods and services credit is necessary to purchase.
Let me give you a non-mortgage example that I know will hit home for your son... student loans. There is no way for most people out there to get a quality four year university education without a student loan. What if a chosen career demands a graduate degree? How many people out there have $200,000 saved for their child to go to school? How many of you would scream in outrage if only the "elite upper class" could afford an MBA, Ph.D, M.ed, MD, etc degrees?
Let's use myself as an example on how there is not one person or group to point a finger at. When I graduate in May I will have a student loan debt of roughly $165,000. Multiply that by 2 due to my wife's student loan. My wife has a job already that is helping degrease one student loan debt.
The economy crunch hits and I end up defaulting on my loan because nobody will hire me, because everyone's business is slowing down, because nobody can afford eyecare of glasses, because they just defaulted on their mortgage, because they were laid off at work, because their employer is losing money, because ... ...
There is not any one group to point a finger at here, its a societal issue that everyone will need to change and cut back a little bit for the economy to evolve... isn't that the market driven American way we are all so proud of??
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"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -Dr. Johnson
Just for another opinion, I think that your statement of "nicely stated" was just that. A statement letting someone know you agree with them. Why does so much have to be read into everything someone says. Or doesnt say. Why cant someone just answere a question or make a comment without being attacked.
Myself, I think that is most of the reason this issue page has slowed down so much. People just want a place to discuss issues, not get into a personal war of words.
Thats my opinion and its my right to have it,
PS nicely stated Gundo
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Today is a great day to be a Yankee........Yogi Berra
That's it Gundo? "Nicely stated"? I want to hear your opinion. Who and where do to think the responsibility lays? Be honest. Do you think its fair that someone buys a house for 300,000 and they cant make the payments...so we through our taxes pay it for them? I WANT to KNOW. Do you feel that is fair? We All need to start talking about this!! And STOP skirting around the issues for fear of being Politically Incorrect!!! WE are the people, of the people and for the PEOPLE!! We are NOT...OF THE PEOPLE for the FAT CATS in WASHINGTON and WALL STREET!! I want to hear it!! If you feel its a good thing...I want to hear it!!! Tell me why!! Not just nicely stated!! Why in your opinion is it Nicely Stated!! I may not agree, but I still want to hear your opinion!!! What are we cowing down to!!! Fear!!!? Where has PERSONAL responisbility gone to!!? Some one TELL ME!!! EVEN ME!! Where does my responisbality come and go? Lets talk. All of us!!
the IDIOTs who approved these loans should be criminally prosecuted.. THE IDIOTS who felt we needed to lower the standards to allow people who COULD NOT afford the payment should be Prosecuted. The IDIOT who signed the papers knowing he/she did not make enough money should DEAL with it ... IM gonna bail these IDIOTS out using my taxes and they are gonna SUCK my 401k dry as this self induced financial Fiasco drags ALL OF US down .. I am sick of COWTOWing to the people who are complaining they are not getting the same breaks as OTHERS.. SICK of lowering academic standards and teaching to the least common denominator. ITs time to start putting the RESPONSIBILITY on the FAMILY, the parents and stop making me the problem THEY are not making it !!! The heights by great men reached and kept, were not obtained by sudden flight, but they ..while thier companions slept, were toiling upward in the night. NO FREE HANDOUTS. if you draw a government welfare check, work for it and be ready to take a drug test !!!
Is anybody else wondering where the Bail out was for us back in the 80's when the "oil boom" went bust, and homes were forclosed on? Back then they were building and selling like crazy. And then it all went to hell. People were forced to move, but those few who were left were forced to pay higher taxes to pay for it all. And then you yell and scream about not building more and yada, yada, yada...and blameing the "old folks" but hey, once bitten twice shy. If you didn't live here back then, then you have NO idea how bad it got in the 90's.
And now the Country has gone and done the same damn thing!! Are you kidding me!! And now we're back to higher taxes do to morons who knew they couldn't make the morgage if something drastic happened. Who and how the hell, is anybody going to pay for a 200,000 let alone 300,000 dollar home? 300,000 at 10 percent is 3,000 a month!! ANd Dah... 10 percent if that going to principle. AND now we have bail the morons out!! I'm soooooo ticked about this whole damn bail out situation!! I cant believe there isnt more outrage about this!! How do you all feel about "The Bail Out"? Maybe, I'm just the nutter here. I'd love to hear from you all.
