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Post Info TOPIC: Marcil's reply and pulling out. What's your take?
Do you feel Marcil Group reacted correctly? [9 vote(s)]

yes
33.3%
no
66.7%


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RE: Marcil's reply and pulling out. What's your take?


so i guess the partners with marcil built the first set of apartments are planning on building anyways.

a comment on the willistonherald guestbook says that the people whom will be handling the leasing is marcil...

interesting if true. i dont know, anybody else have more info?

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SKM


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Can't get my point across in an intelligent way... so I pulled it.  Wish I was a wordsmith smile.

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Shayla


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quite a bit of comment going on at the heralds site.

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Ricky, glad you posted.  Good to see you speak out.  But cowardly is moreso those who wanted to see the Marcil Group continue to build apartments but did not show up to do so.  Those against were there in droves.  Otherwise, thanks for your input.

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Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. – Philippians 2:3-4



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I'm amazed at the attitudes and knee jerk responses by our community. I can understand being a little miffed at my rent being raised before my lease is up; if that's what happened. If the lease was up, get over it. I'm amazed that people are upset about their rent going from $400 to $600. Where, in any growing community, can you rent a place for less than $600 a month? If we want to get blunt here, how about the previous landlords who've been collecting rent for 30 years and not doing any upkeep. Slumlords??? How about our city leaders who've been allowing these building to become run down yet when given the opportunity to help remedy the problem (a simple yes vote for the tax increment), appease appease appease the public or certain public. Wow, typical, death sentence to any growth potential, insane, cowardly....just a few words that come to mind. Just my opinion. Could be wrong. Could just be a "knee jerk reaction" ;)



-- Edited by Steve Powell at 11:00, 2008-09-26

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Ricky (Streak2) Waitman
Luke 12:48


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And yet steve is able to eliquitly sum up what i was trying to find the words to say.

How many more times have people tried to come in and "help out" or start things only to be shut down by either past city fathers or "witch hunted"?

Companies are always gonna look for a break


In following some of this in the past, the city more or less is in the realty biz with all the lower income housing they maintain. But from the understanding that they did not want to really build new as that would put the city in competition with owners/leasers that hold estate within the city, kind of a catch 22.

Perhaps my presentation of the material was not smoothly presented. But it seems that the bigger picture is being seen.

Hopefully this is a huge lesson for the residents that raised all the stink. But my feeling is that it never change unfortunately.

Although I do hope it does.



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vko


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Thank you for your information...  It takes time and a whole lot of energy to do what you do. 

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Since my last reply, I've been educated a little on what went on between the city and this group.  Essentially, the mis-information going around the city is that these guys have been given a tax break.  Well, not so much.

To start, an apartment costs in the neighborhood of 6 million bucks to build.  This group didn't have 6 mil rolling around in their pockets so in order to get financing they needed loans.  Here's where the problem lies.  Once the apartments are built they actually are only appraised at 4.5 million dollars leaving them well short of the monies the banks are going to be willing to give them considering they'd only really want to borrow them 60-70 percent of the 4.5 million any ways. 

So the city offered them a TIF or Tax Increment Financing contract that allows the city to help out the financing with a bond.  Marcil still pays their property taxes just like you and me. 

And the argument of "they could duck out anytime they want and leave the taxpayers to pay just like last time".....wel...this isn't true either since the banks lending the money end up with the property.  It's not the same as the city paying to build an entire sub-community of roads and sidewalks and us having to pay for the infrastructure those people left behind. 

So from what I understand, this turned out to be a witch-hunt.  Not sure what people didn't like about Marcil...don't personally know the guy.  I understand his rates were high on his apartments, but this doesn't necessarily mean everyone else had to raise theirs.  How about all those people who already owned apartments in town that ended up gauging their tenants?  Why aren't they being called out on the carpet?

This is my understanding of the issue...I would like to think that I'm off on this and Marcil really was the "bad guy" but....after the education I received today, I don't think I am.

ps...with that letter to the editor...I can only say....good luck, Williston, getting other big name businesses to come.  If a Lowes, or Ground Round, or someone like that found out how the Marcil Group was treated, they'd do a 180 and wouldn't look back.

Dakota, the city HAS been in the real estate business for years.  They finally sold off the rest of the empty lots they owned..or are close to doing so.  From what I understand, and I could be wrong biggrin, but there's really no money in low income, "affordable" housing.  The city would end up being landlords or having to pay for them and we don't really want our city fathers to end up with those kinds of headaches.  They have enough on their hands already.

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Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. – Philippians 2:3-4

vko


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Tax credits - that is what big companies are after..  no longer offered as big banks are in a little trouble.  Do I understand that -  NO - but so far in the middle of it.  Can I explain it - No - Just following a contract that some company would like to get out of -  Still we are holding up our end of the deal...Other than that no comment but it was not Marcil group...Stuff broke loose and some big companies are trying to pretend it everyones fault but there own.   Just wish I understood a little more...  But a contract is a contract that I can follow. 

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Devils advocate here. why doesn't the city government go into the housing market, The city handle all aspects of constructing afforadable housing, manage the facilities and use the revenue to improve the city services..   of course there should be an oversite committee to ensure no shenanigans.  Not that there is or would be in Williston Government officials.. 

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Good points, but hasn't the cost of homes increased in the past few years? Why shouldn't the cost of rents? Not only has rents and home increased, but so has the cost of putting up such buildings. Not only in hourly wages, but also in costs. How else is a company supposed to recoup costs.

I understand 1000$ rent seems like an exorbitant amount, but there are plenty of places to rent in larger cities that cost that much if not more. 

There were other alternatives that were still available, one of the fastest would be a mobile home.(just my opinion) 

I hope the town is able to figure something out.

Maybe there will be a hometown person all cashed up willing and able to take the risk.

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Two sides to the coin.  Some people may say this is a prime example of a group taking complete advantage of a community when they are in desperate need, all the while trying to make themselves out to look like the good guy.  The problem here is that they are in this to make as much money as they can as fast as they can before the bottom falls out once again.  They didn't need that TIF to make money here.  There are plenty of people making boatloads already without it.  The fact is, there IS a shortage of housing so they knew darn well they were going to make out like bandits w/ or w/out the TIF.  The city shortchanged themselves by not collecting.

The other side of the coin...Williston residents are screaming for more multifamily housing.  The city heard those cries and felt they found a way to secure a group that would provide an immediate need.  Marcil proposed to build and buy a very good number of apartments that would have relieved the city of the complaints they were receiving from many people living in hotels and campers.

The problem that occured when Marcil built it's first apartment was that they set a new standard for rental rates in Williston.  Whether they meant to do this or not...it happened.  Other apartment owners saw that they were getting higher rates and decided to raise theirs as well causing many who couldn't afford higher rates to complain even louder.  Had Marcil been able to build their apartments and keep their rates as low as possible (which I think they should have been considering the tax break they received) the other apartment owners would not have followed that trend and we may still be moving forward.

This is how it plays out in my clouded mind anyways.

But never fear, for my crystal ball tells me there is help around the corner.  We WILL be seeing more apartments and multi-family housing units going up w/in the next year and I do believe they will be reasonably priced. 


-- Edited by Steve Powell at 14:53, 2008-09-25

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Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. – Philippians 2:3-4



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Here is a copy of Marcil's reply, (again lifted from williston herald 9-25-09)

Marcil responds to community in letter

Published/Last Modified on Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:32 AM CDT


This letter is a response to the city council meeting held last evening in Williston. It has become clear that there is significant public opposition of The Marcil Group Inc. developing additional apartments in Williston. As a result we have decided to withdrawal our proposal to build up to 108 new apartments in the area. The project would have provided essential housing that will help alleviate the serious housing shortages in the area. The additional investment was over $10.5 Million in scope and would have created additional construction jobs in the area for up to two years. The Marcil Group will no longer have any involvement in the Williston market beyond having a minority equity stake in the apartments we already own.

The Marcil Group Inc. in partnership with Valley Development Group recently completed the construction of 72 new apartment units in the area. Now that the project is completed we have selected Vesta Property Management (Vesta) as our new property management company. We have instructed Vesta to place a rent freeze on all rental units with existing tenants in Williston. This is comprised of 143 apartment units in the area. All current residents in our buildings will be guaranteed to keep the same rent rate for up to one year. If an existing resident moves out Vesta will raise or lower the rents to the prevailing market rate. We have done this as a gesture of good will to the community and to address escalating prices in the area. Vesta manages apartment units for other owners who may or may not have the same gesture of goodwill toward the community. Any concerns or questions concerning rent rates or availability should be directed directly to Vesta Property Management Inc.

Last, we are deeply saddened by the extraordinary level of hostility to our company in the community. We have undertaken great risk in building needed housing in the area. We understand high prices and rent increases are painful, however we think the wholesale assault on our company is not fair or warranted. We are not the reason for high prices. We are the group trying to address the issue by building more housing. Instead of blaming us why not ask why no local investors are willing to build apartments in Williston. Maybe this is a better reason to be angry. 

We wish the community the best of luck in the future, but we are moving our investment to communities who want to support our development efforts.

Sincerely,

Mike Marcil

CEO

The Marcil Group Inc.



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Very interesting read in the willistonherald.com about Marcil company pulling any further develoment due to "strong opposition from Williston residents regarding higher rents for renovated and new apartments in the city ".

copied from willistonherald.com 11-25-09

Apartment developer pulls project proposal

By Alan Reed
Managing editor
Published/Last Modified on Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:32 AM CDT

The Fargo development company that has drawn strong opposition from Williston residents regarding higher rents for renovated and new apartments in the city is not going to pursue a second apartment building project.

In a letter to the editor to The Herald, CEO Mike Marcil of The Marcil Group Inc. responds to a public hearing that was held by the Williston City Commission Tuesday evening. The hearing was to consider a proposed request by The Marcil Group Inc. and partner Valley Development Group of Valley City for a Tax Increment Finance District to help finance the construction of more new apartments in Williston.

The TIF was to help cover about $750,000 to clear about 17 acres on the Old Cimmeron Trailer Park near 32nd Street. The trailer park was last used in the 1980s and is now owned by the city.

Marcil's letter states "It has become clear that there is significant public opposition of The Marcil Group Inc. developing additional apartments in Williston. As a result, we have decided to withdrawal our proposal to build up to 108 new apartments in the area."

Marcil states the project would have provided essential housing to help alleviate the serious housing shortages in the area. He adds the additional investment was over $10.5 million and would have created additional construction jobs in the area for up to two years. "The Marcil Group will no longer have any involvement in the Williston market beyond having a minority equity stake in the apartments we already own," Marcil writes.

In the letter, Marcil then reviewed how he partnered with the Valley Development Group of Valley City to build 72 new apartment units in Williston.

"Now that the project is completed, we have selected Vesta Property Management (Vesta) as our new property management company. We have instructed Vesta to place a rent freeze on all rental units with existing tenants in Williston. This is comprised of 143 apartment units in the area," Marcil writes.

He continues to state all current residents in the corporation's buildings will be guaranteed to keep the same rent rate for up to one year. If an existing resident moves out, Vesta will raise or lower rents to the prevailing market rate, Marcil continues.

"We have done this as a gesture of good will to the community and to address escalating prices in the area," Marcil writes. "Vesta manages apartment units for other owners who may or may not have the same gesture of goodwill toward the community. Any concerns or questions concerning rent rates or availability should be directed directly to Vesta Property Management Inc."

Marcil states in his letter they are "deeply saddened by the extraordinary level of hostility to our company in the community. We have undertaken great risk in building needed housing in the area. We understand high prices and rent increases are painful, however we think the wholesale assault on our company is not fair or warranted."

Marcil writes his corporation is not the reason for high rents.

"We are the group trying to address the issue by building more housing. Instead of blaming us why not ask why no local investors are willing to build apartments in Williston. Maybe this is a better reason to be angry," he writes.

Marcil concludes his letter by stating the corporation wishes the community the best of luck in the future, "but we are moving our investment to communities who want to support our development efforts."

In a telephone conversation with Marcil Thursday morning, he stated his firm has been treated unfairly.

"The idea that we are the reason for oil going up to $140 a barrel and prices going up in Williston is just ridiculous. The prices in Williston going up is because there is a housing shortage," he said.

Marcil said his corporation has less than 10 percent of the rental units in Williston, "so we don't control the rental market in Williston. If landlords are raising rents in Williston, that is a market problem."

He said his firm has been "very vilified" in Williston and "we are very hurt by it."

"We've been portrayed as this big multinational company that is coming in and doing bad things in Williston," he said. "That is just crazy. We are a North Dakota company that makes rural investments."

He said they are a small company he founded three years ago that now has about 18 people to do rural housing projects in North Dakota. He said Williston residents need to look at other communities in the state where his corporation has worked to get an accurate sense of what the firm is about.

"Honestly, I've never been treated like this before," he said Thursday morning. "I'm so unbelievably mystified. I'm so confused by this thing."

Marcil said everyone in Williston is angry because the community has gone through five oil boom and bust cycles.

"Everybody who invested in 1983 went bankrupt, bankrupt, bankrupt," he said.

His organization, meanwhile, is the only group recently that indicated a desire to invest in Williston and had proposed a second project estimated to be worth $10 million. He thought local residents would welcome an organization that is finally willing to invest in the community.

"Instead, we are the villains from Fargo that just comes in there and kicks out old citizens from their houses," he said, which isn't true and which has nothing to do with his organization. "That is HUD related. That is not us. We are building market housing."

Marcil said he knows of other developers who also have decided to back away from projects that had been proposed for Williston.

"It's not just us. We get asked all the time 'How is the community treating you?' The city council has been great," he said.

But when you get protested with a project to build more capacity to lower prices in Williston, you can't get it done, he said.

"Maybe that is just the way it's going to be," Marcil said. "We're not going to get involved in it. We've taken our run at it. We've tried very hard to put in this project at great expense."

He said banks are unwilling to lend for projects in Williston, which means his organization would have needed to use its own cash to build.

"We went into Williston and we still believe the community has a real opportunity to grow. We believe in the fundamentals in that region," he said. "Actually, we've had a pretty good experience, outside of this (TIF) process, specifically working with the city. The city has been very easy to deal with."

But when he hears local residents cussing his organization, it's time to change course, he said.

"I wish Williston the best of luck. We're certainly going to support the investments we've made, but we're going to move on," he said.

Reached by telephone in Bismarck Thursday morning, Williston Mayor Ward Koeser said he had not seen Marcil's letter, which also had been e-mailed to some city officials, but had someone read it to him.

"I'm disappointed, but I recognize they are making a corporate decision," Koeser said of the Marcil decision. "We will carry on and work with who we can to solve the housing problem."

Koeser said Marcil came in and built the two new apartment buildings and "they did what they said they would do and we are happy."

At the same time, Marcil also bought a couple of other apartment complexes that it needed to house its workers, Koeser said.

"They made some substantial increases in rent," Koeser said of the existing residences Marcil bought and renovated. "The people involved were concerned that they couldn't pay those rents. So I guess they got involved and made it clear they didn't want Marcils to get any break or any incentive to build more."

By having the new units that Marcil built, Koeser said that helps with appraisals of other new units that might be built.

Tom Rolfstad of the city's Economic Development Office said the city faces a real appraisal gap because most of the apartment buildings in Williston haven't had a substantial amount of work done to them. Many of the apartments used today were built 25 to 30 years ago, he said.

"When you look at the cost today to build versus 25 to 30 years ago, you can't build for the rent levels of the existing buildings," Rolfstad said.

Rolfstad said local people and outside investors are concerned about the boom-bust cycles associated with the oil industry.

"Every investor is looking at what kind of return they can make in the short term versus the risk they are taking in the long term," he said.

To build new apartment units, "you had to be able to charge rents that were more than double what existing rents were. I think that is the reality in the community," Rolfstad said.


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